Real People

A Secret Life by Steven Hammond

My name is Steven Hammond. I was born with a genital sexual birth defect. Because it was undetected at birth by both the doctor and my parents, I was raised the wrong sex. Alot of things in this life are hard to understand, but I think I have endured one of the most difficult things I can imagine to endure.

Children are born every day with different types of congenital birth defects. Some are born with no arms and no legs, some are born blind or deaf, or mentally retarded. It is hard to understand why these things happen, but in my case there were two things that happened. The first was being born with a sexual birth defect, which I now accept as just that. The second was being raised the wrong sex and having to change my whole life.

Only the God of this universe knows what I have had to endure both mentally and physically. He is the one who created me to be who I am, and he alone can understand my circumstances.

I'm sure that all the other people who have lived with birth defects must feel the same way. I hope that my story will enlighten people about sexual birth defects. Sexual birth defects are in a category of their own and are not to be confused with homosexuality, transsexualism, cross-dressing, or any situation where a physically normal person makes it their own choice to be different.

Steve Hammond is an ordinary guy. I drive a Jeep Cherokee pickup. I built the house where me and my wife, Sara Jane, live. I get up every day and go to my job at a warehouse in Berea, Kentucky. I wants to adopt a child and provide stability for my family. Like most of us, I dream of getting a little extra out of life. An ordinary guy. But I have an extraordinary story to tell.

Looking Beyond the Mountains
A book written by Steven Hammond.

Here is the story of how Linda Jean Hammond became Steven Hammond after surgery to correct a genital birth defect. Labeled female at birth, Steven Hammond lived for 25 years as a female -- a boy imprisoned in the trappings of a girl. This is the story of the life of Linda Jean and the birth of Steven at age 25. Click here to order Looking Beyond the Mountains.

Surprise

In 1981, Linda Jean Hammond (I was known as "Linda Jean"), 25, stepped into the Richmond office of Dr. William P. Grise a few minutes after he had opened. "It was the first time I'd revealed myself to a doctor. I'd been to a doctor for an ear ache and an infected hand but had never had a complete physical. I was very embarrassed and scared. I knew my secret was going to be revealed, a secret I'd held in all my life. "I figured he would know without asking me so many questions. That first time, I had a hard time talking." Grise remembers single-word answers to nearly every question, chipping away at Linda's wall of protection. Then came the examination.

Born Different

Linda Jean Hammond was born with a birth defect June 2, 1956, in Mary Rutan Hospital in Bellefontaine, Ohio. Dr. John B. Traul is listed as the physician. He has since died. If he or his nurses noticed anything unusual about the infant Hammond, they didn't press hard to do something about it. Linda went home untreated.

Six weeks later, my mother, Christine, and father, Floyd, moved our family of five children to Jackson County, Ky. Floyd's sister noticed "Linda used the bathroom funny" when she diapered the baby. She wanted to take Linda to a doctor. She told my father, but he wasn't around much. There wasn't money for the essentials then, much less medical help. A few years later, my parents divorced. My mother tried to raise the family the best she could, but there was barely enough to eat.

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There are memories of the poverty: "We woke up sometimes bleeding - me on the toes and my sister from the head - where rats bit us. We lived in houses with dirt floors. In the winter, it was always cold, so Mamma put us all in one bed together and covered us with a feather mattress so we could keep warm." I cried alot during those first years. My mother often thought something was wrong but couldn't pinpoint it and never said anything about it to me. I took comfort from my younger brother. Me and my younger brother Michael were the closest. I always wanted to play with his toys more that mine. He always had the guns. I always got the dolls.The Tomboy

Photos of Linda at the time (this one at age 10) show a cute, cheerful child, a little girl with chestnut hair cut in a pageboy. But all was not right. School was boring. There were school chums at Sand Gap Elementary School, but mostly Linda wanted to stay home alone, play softball or shoot basketball. Linda seemed a bit of a tomboy, but it only provoked a little teasing. By seventh and eighth grade, Linda became a cheerleader. "I wanted to be a part of the boy's basketball team, but I couldn't play. That was the only way I could be part of the team."

When I was 10, my mother married John R. Johnson. Life got much better. "He loved us alot. I have a biological real dad, but to me he is my real dad because I didn't know my other dad. He (Johnson) ran a filling station and taught all of us, but I guess I was the one most interested in electrical work, plumbing, carpentry, and mechanics. Mostly, he taught us alot of common sense."

What is Normal?

In Jackson County, where I grew up, pictures of naked men and women were hard to find, nor had I ever seen a naked man or a naked woman. So how could I know about normal development and about what male and female body parts were supposed to look like? At 11, I did tell my mother, "I get hard down there." I made my mother swear she wouldn't tell "John R.", as I called I my stepfather.

When I started at Jackson County High School in the early 1970's, the vague feelings got worse. Girlfriends talked about developing breasts and having menstrual periods, but I didn't develop. Periods never came. The anatomy was wrong, and it scared me. My mother wanted me to go to a doctor. I was terrified and refused.

Girls normally reach puberty between the ages of 11 and 17. My mother thought things would either get better or I would get sick and have to see a doctor. But my birth defect meant that wouldn't happen. I bullied Mamma into ignoring it.

Impulses of a Man

Linda went to work as a shipping clerk in a 13-acre warehouse. In one particularly striking photo from that time, Linda's hair falls well below the shoulders. Linda wore padded bras. Still, Linda's frustration kept building. Linda transferred from the clerk's job to loading trucks. To co-workers, Linda was "L.J. - the strongest woman they ever had to work with."

The guys on the dock didn't bother me much, and after work there was always softball. The trophies filled a room. By then, the frustration had become a full-fledged battle between the spiritual side of Linda and the angry person who wondered why God would make such a person. I was troubled by an attraction to women.

A co-worker said to Linda, "Jesus will save you." And the "big old tomboy who was always laughing and carrying on" grew quiet. I attended services in a white cinder block Baptist church. One day the preacher seemed to speak directly to me. He said the Bible said men shouldn't wear women's clothes and women shouldn't wear men's. My face burned. That was one of the last times I wore a skirt.

My attraction to women increased. A female friend became convinced my impulses were those of a man and urged me to visit a doctor. To do so, I had to show a body that had been hidden for so long. "Here I am, and I think I know what's going on but I'm confused. I think I could be both sexes, and I'm scared they're going to find out."

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The Reason Why

I didn't get a quick definitive answer during my first visit to the Richmond doctor. Dr. Grise called surgery and a specialist in urology at the University of Kentucky Chandler Medical Center. Dr. Grise told me, "When you feel like it, come in and let's talk about it. But I'm going to have to send you to somebody else." I tried to ignore it.

Thinking I was both sexes was one reason I'd rebelled and quit going to church. How can a person survive being both sexes when there's just male and female and that's how God created them? How could that person ever have a life?

When I didn't come back, Dr. Grise thought he'd lost his patient. More that a year passed between my first visit to the Dr. and the first trip to Lexington, Kentucky to see Dr. J. William McRoberts.

I drank some and bills piled up. There was a feeling of disarray. I wanted a home, a life. The confusion was more painful than the fear of exposure. Finally, the will to do something won out.

I was still really in mystery, and was looking forward to seeing Dr. McRoberts. First they took a long history of my life. There were several exams by different doctors until McRoberts arrived. But this time, there was no lying on the back, legs spread and feet in stirrups. It was very embarrassing for me, and I think that's true with anyone, but I found hope. Dr. McRoberts diagnosed my problem right away. Tests followed, but they were only to make sure nothing had been missed. The cause of my lifelong confusion was a birth defect.

Linda Hammond was born male. He had male sex organs. But his development had been incomplete, and at birth he'd been confused with a female. The male hormones produced by male glands had given him normal male desires.

Dr. McRoberts explained the medical term was male pseudo (or false) hermaphrodite. The term has caused much confusion. It simply means that Linda was male, always male, but that his untreated appearance could be confused with someone who had the characteristics of both sexes.

Confusing sexual characteristics occur in perhaps one in every 1,000 births, Dr. McRoberts said. Some of the causes can be explained. For instance, a malfunctioning adrenal gland can cause a female to develop genitalia that look like those of a male. Other causes are not as well understood, and with the exception of the reproductive system, the patient is otherwise normal.

Most of the time, these problems are detected at birth. The problem is corrected, the baby goes home either a boy or a girl. Sometimes the birth defect is discovered later. As a surgeon specializing in urology, Dr. McRoberts had seen babies with confusing sex characteristics hundreds of times before, but rarely in anyone over the age of 8. Only once before had he seen it in a teenager. At 26, I was the oldest patient with such a problem whom Dr. McRoberts had ever seen.

The Confusion and the Courage

The confusion began before my birth. A developing embryo has the potential to be either male or female. Each embryo has wolffien ducts - a tube with the potential to form the male reproductive system - and mullerian ducts that can develop into the female reproductive system. The sex chromosome - contributed by the father - causes secretion of the hormones that determine whether the wolffian male duct or the mullerian ducts will predominate. An embryo becomes male because of the secretion of a hormone (testosterone) that develops the wolffian ducts and inhibits the mullerian. All the hormones and all of the events must be just right.

For me, the final stage was incomplete. I had all the normal male equipment, but my testicles remained inside my body and produced male hormones. My penis was covered by the folds of skin that normally join together to form the scrotal sac. The urethral opening to my bladder was malformed. But enough was right so the condition could be surgically corrected to give normal male sexual function.

But for those first few weeks after my visit to Dr. McRoberts, I didn't worry about the four operations to come. I was relieved that my confusion was over. I knew Id always been male.

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Dr. McRoberts signed statements to substantiate the fact. With the help of a lawyer, Linda Jean Hammond became Steve Hammond. I had no trouble accepting it myself. I knew I'd be headed for a hard road, but except for the surgery, I never did take off work, never did have mental help. I look back on it and wonder, "How did I ever have the courage to go through it?"

I called my mother, the only one who knew my secret. She remembered that as a child, I'd had boyish behavior and boyish hands and feet. Still it surprised her. My mother said, "I guess it was my fault letting you have your way (not seeing a doctor). But when your were a baby, there was no way you could tell. I don't know, I guess you accept children the way they are."

John R., my stepfather, cried when he found out - not because he was ashamed, but because he remembered how Steve had helped him in the garage all those years. He sensed the embarrassment I would face in explaining my new identity and how some would refuse to understand. "'What do you reckon happened to Linda?' they'll ask. 'What went wrong?' I'll explain it and tell them all I know about it and then, maybe three months later, they'll ask me to explain it again", my stepfather said. "There's just no use trying to explain it to some people. They just hear what they want to hear."

My mother told my brothers and sister. They seemed to accept my new identity. They never asked me about it. Right after the doctor said I was a man, it was like God was waiting for me to do this all my life. My life really unfolded like a page.

Afterward

I woke up after the first operation in the hospital's gray-and blue tile recovery room. There was Dr. McRoberts sitting next to me in a wooden rocking chair writing his surgical notes, wearing a paisley surgical cap and a blue surgical scrub suit. "Dr. McRoberts, I believe God has blessed your hands," I told him. Medical insurance paid most of the bills. And the good doctor waived the rest.

I have distanced myself from the first 25 years of my life. I threw away my softball trophies and many other reminders of my past. Then I had to convince others that I was a man. As Linda, I had used the women's bathroom at work, and now I would have to use the men's. I had to prove to the personnel officer that I was a man and had changed my name.

The first time I walked into the men's room, there were 10 men inside, some of them snickering. Generally, my co-workers were supportive. But once a man cursed me, called me names and tried to get me to fight. I, determined to respond as a Christian, wouldn't answer, wouldn't fight unless I was hit. My response so affected my tormentor that he, too, became a Christian. Some co-workers have said I'm one of the strongest people they've ever known because I had the nerve. But one man still calls me Linda. My friends knew what I was going through and gave their prayers and help.

Getting Married

Sara Jane Van Winkle and I first met when she accompanied a friend who dropped by my apartment. The friend was worried "about all that Steve was going through" and wanted to check and see if I was all right. Sara Jane is from Rockcastle County and never knew me as Linda. Sara Jane said, "There he was, just another guy in a T-shirt and sweat pants. He seemed a little bit shy. I did most of the talking. But he was open and honest about things.

I always admired that in people. We just talked awhile, got acquainted and that was it." As our relationship developed, I explained everything to Sara Jane. I told her I could have sex but was sterile. Most of her friends accepted me without question.

I married Sara Jane in 1983, a few months after my visit to Dr. McRoberts. I was 26. She was 27. I decided to tell my story because I want people to know this problem was a birth defect - not a sex change. I want to help anyone who may be going through what I went through. I'm planning to write a book about my experiences.

Looking Beyond the Mountains
A book written by Steven Hammond..

Here is the story of how Linda Jean Hammond became Steven Hammond after surgery to correct a genital birth defect. Labeled female at birth, Steven Hammond lived for 25 years as a female -- a boy imprisoned in the trappings of a girl. This is the story of the life of Linda Jean and the birth of Steven at age 25. Click here to order Looking Beyond the Mountains.

 

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next:   Guide to Medical Intersexuality Vocabulary
~ all inside intersexuality articles
~ all articles on gender

from the Merck Manual

How to Understand Medical Writing on Intersex

ambiguous genitalia

Genitalia that refuse to declare their sex to doctors--no doubt on the principle that under interrogation by the enemy you should give only name, rank, and serial number.

androgen

Andro=male; gen=making. Androgens are administered to infants to prevent their becoming androgynes. See testosterone.

androgen insensitivity

The condition of infants who callously refuse to respond to testosterone treatment; the cause of many an endocrinologist's hurt feelings.

circumcision

A mass-market edition of intersexed surgery, priced for the common man. The reasons for circumcision are too numerous to treat here, but T.V.N. Persaud of the University of Manitoba recites one ingenious opinion:

Some conditions, such as phimosis, often lead to circumcision at a later age that could have been prevented if it had been performed earlier.

Physicians thus exhibit the same prescience as the Monopods in C. S. Lewis's The Chronicles of Narnia, who boiled potatoes before planting them in order to save doing it when they were dug up.

clitoral recession

See female genital mutilation. Despite Webster's false cognate, "recession" is derived from "rescission," the noun form of the verb "rescind." Endocrinologists, like certain Congressmen, like to rescind budgets they feel are too large, even when this means cutting off essential services.

clitoromegaly

Micropenis in the female. A longer definition would be superfluous, since this condition is apt to be cut off before the patient can pronounce it.

cryptorchidism

A condition in which the testes (-orchid) are hidden (crypto-). Hidden from whom? Obviously, from the doctors. Cryptorchidism is thus practiced by those discriminating infants who do not wish to put pearls before swine.

distress

A condition caused in parents when their intersexed children go unmutilated.

estrogen

1. A character in Samuel Beckett's Waiting for Godot, who was just pining away for a doctor to come change his sex.

2. A character in Ursula Le Guin's The Left Hand of Darkness, who bloody well wasn't.

female

1. A male intersexual when the endocrinologist is through with him.

2. A female intersexual whom the urologist has not seen yet.

female genital mutilation (FGM)

The scarring or removal of the clitoris, performed by witch doctors and condemned by all right-thinking people. If the clitoris is a bit larger than average, however, it is performed by accredited surgeons and covered by all major insurance plans.

gynecomastia

Enlargement of the breasts in a patient whom we have decided to call male. In a patient whom we have decided to call female, the same trait is called "excellent breast development."

hypertrophy

Literally, too much meat. How much is too much? More, madam, than your sister has; less, sir, than you will have when we are through.

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hypogonadotropic hypogonadism

A condition in which the gonads are small owing to a lack of the chemical signals that activate them. To be distinguished from hypergonadotrophic hypogonadism, in which the gonads are small owing to an excess of the chemical signals that activate them. The progress of medical science makes possible these ingenious explanations of formerly murky phenomena.

hypospadias

A condition in which the meatus of the penis exits elsewhere than the tip. The etymology of this term is worthy of great meditation: hypo=too little; spadix is the Latin for sword. If only the infant's sword were larger, he would be able to fight off the surgeon.

idiopathic

Found in solitude. A condition that boors never allow to persist in women or in symptoms.

Contrary to previous report, idiopathy does not mean "stupid medicine," there being no need of a special term to identify that thriving Science.

Klinefelter's Syndrome

One of that large class of syndromes named for people who did not have the syndromes. Even Lou Gehrig's Disease has been renamed for some doctor who probably couldn't even hold a bat.

lusus naturae

A freak of nature. It may at first surprise the reader that this term is not applied to people who cut up perfectly healthy genitals; but while that behavior is certainly freakish, nature has nothing to do with it.

male

See female. Whatever you may say of medical Fascism, it does make the males run on time.

micropenis

Clitoromegaly in the male. Cutting off the micropenis and rearing the child as female is a common way of producing a satisfactory psychological adjustment;

For it's a fact the whole world knows That Pobbles are happier without their toes.

Edward Lear

presenting

Having. As in, "The infant presented a hypospadiac micropenis" (said by doctors) or "The jogger presented a large wallet" (said by muggers).

primary hypogonadism

Primary hypogonadism reduces the body's sex hormones due to undeveloped testes or ovaries; see micropenis, which it sometimes causes.

It is not clear to the compiler of this Manual why some doctors feel that primary hypogonadism should be followed by a genital election.

pseudohermaphrodite

Pseudo=false; a pseudohermaphrodite is one whose falsely ambiguous genitals cruelly mislead the doctor into hopes of publication. So, at least, says pseudoscience.

res ipsa loquitur

Legal, not medical, Latin: "the thing speaks for itself." A sponge left in a patient's body speaks for itself, and is well paid to do so; but for the sex organ removed from the body, nobody will speak.

rights

Wrongs. In medical literature, the 'rights' of the intersexed refer exclusively to their right to be modified, never to any right to remain as they are. For example, one text calls for hypospadias to be "corrected" even when it is purely cosmetic, on the grounds that "by the age of five every boy has the right to be a 'pointer' and not a 'setter'."

stenosis

Narrowness. A condition of meatuses and minds.

surgical sex reassignment (infant)

Making a sow's ear out of a silk purse. Known to cause deafness.

testosterone

An androgen taking its name from the test in which it is applied to a micropenis. Micropenises that do not grow must be cut off; if they do grow then no further treatment is needed. Compare the water ordeal, beloved of witch-hunters, in which witches that float must be drowned, while those that sink may remain as they are. We Americans may be justly proud at the advances in our enlightened Society.

urologists

Those benefactors of humanity who, with considerable difficulty, distinguish intersexed infant boys from intersexed infant girls. These infants, when grown, may with equal difficulty distinguish urologists from butchers.

I pray that some day I will have the means to repay, in some measure, the American Urological Association for all they have done for my benefit. I am having some trouble, though, in connecting the timing mechanism to the fuse.

Quoted by Megan Holmes, from a letter by an anonymous intersexual

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next: About Me
~ all inside intersexuality articles
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Adrenal glands:

a pair of glands in males and females, located above the kidneys, which produce a number of hormones, including androgens

Androgens:

the main hormones testosterone and dihydrotestosterone secreted from the testes

Estrogen:

the primary hormones produced by the ovaries

Genital folds:

common to both males and females early in development. In males the genital folds develop into the scrotum and in females develop into the labia majora

Genital ridges:

fetal tissue that can develop into either an ovary or a testis

Genital tubercle:

common to both males and females early in development. In males the genital tubercle develops into a penis and in females develops into the clitoris.

Intersexuality:

An alternative term for hermaphroditism

Karyotype:

A photograph of a person's chromosomes, arranged according to size

Mullerian ducts:

A system present in both sexes early in fetal development. Upon development this system differentiates into a uterus, fallopian tubes and posterior portion of the vagina.

Mullerian Inhibiting Substance (MIS):

Produced by the Sertoli cells, and inhibits Mullerian duct formation

Ovary:

female gonad which manufactures estrogens and eggs

SRY:

a gene on the Y chromosome whose product instructs the fetal germinal ridge to develop into a testis

Testes:

male gonad which manufactures testosterone and sperm

Urethral folds:

common to both males and females early in development, in males the urethral folds develop into the urethra and corpora and in females into the labia minora.

Wolffian ducts:

a system present in both sexes early in fetal development; upon development, this system differentiates into the epididymis, vas deferens, and seminal vesicles

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next: Articles on Intersexuality
~ all inside intersexuality articles
~ all articles on gender

• The truth and reality about having an intersexual child
• Q A about your intersex child
• What is intersexuality?
• What do you mean by "ambiguous genitalia"?
• What is the traditional medical treatment for a child with ambiguous genitalia?
• What do I do if I have a child with ambiguous genitals?
• What sex should I raise my baby as?
• What should I tell my child about his/her condition?
• Can an intersexual live a happy, fulfilled life?
• Recommendable Literature
• Recommendable Family Support Groups
• Addendum: A note on follow-ups

THE TRUTH AND REALITY ABOUT HAVING AN INTERSEXUAL CHILD

We all want the best for our children, and none of us want our children to suffer, but sometimes we can't always agree on what "the best" actually is. If you're the parent of a child born with an intersex condition, you may not be sure what is right for your baby. This information was written by real intersexuals, those of us who live and cope and manage with our conditions all the time. We feel that you deserve to know what it's like for us, and what it might be like for your (current or potential) intersex child. As parents, you deserve that real truth, straight from the source. We'll try to answer your questions here.

QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS ABOUT YOUR INTERSEX CHILD

What is intersexuality?

Intersexuality is a group of medical conditions that blur or make nonstandard the physical sex of the individual intersexual. They include Klinefelter's syndrome (tubule dysgenesis, mostly, though not always correlating to karyotype 47,XXY), congenital adrenal hyperplasia (CAH), androgen insensitivity syndrome (AIS), and many others. We were originally referred to as "hermaphrodites" or "pseudohermaphrodites", but since these terms tend to make people think of mythical figures, we prefer the term "intersexual". This is about medical conditions, not myths.

Some intersexuals are born with genitalia that are "ambiguous", meaning not completely male or female. Ohers are genitally normal at birth but develop mixed secondary sexual characteristics at puberty. Some forms of CAH involves endocrinal salt-wasting, which usually requires steroid medication, though it can be possible to go off mineralcorticoid replacement (cf. Michel Reiter's "Versuch einer Biographie — oder: Alles was ist, muß gesagt werden können" ). Another major complication, which undebatedly needs surgical intervention — nevertheless not justifiying to do gonadectomy "on that occasion" — to be mentioned here are hernias.

Statistics on the number of intersexuals that are born vary from 1.7% of the population (for all intersex conditions) to 1 in 2000 (for those born with ambiguous genitalia).

What do you mean by "ambiguous genitalia"?

Ambiguous genitals can take many forms. The male and female genital characteristics can be combined in many different ways, or there can even be no external genitals at all. None have both a functional penis and a functional vagina, however (wide vs. narrow sinus urogenitalis and phalloclit length are not independent parameters).

What is the traditional medical treatment for a child with ambiguous genitalia?

The traditional treatment is for the doctors to decide doom a predetermined checklist what sex your baby should be, and then surgically modify your child to resemble that sex. We disagree with this treatment for a variety of reasons.

First, the deciding factors tend to be mostly ease of surgery, at times also sportive ambitions ("urologists like to make boys" quoted in Kessler's 1990 article)... in other words, the pediatric surgeon's convenience. Over 90% of intersex children are assigned to the female gender, because "it's easier to make a hole than to build a pole" (quote from Gearheart, surgeon practising at Hopkins Univ., Baltimore, MD). Often the deciding factor is penis length. If the medical personnel feel that your child's penis is not big enough, they will remove it and assign the child to the female sex. We feel that since intersex children have been affected by both male and female hormones before birth, it is impossible to tell what sex your child will prefer once he/she is old enough to talk about it.

In case male assignment is considered they do HCG tests (HCG=human chorionic gonadotropine) to see if the kid is able to produce testosterone in "sufficient" amounts, and if this doesn't work also apply testo, to see if the kid can "sufficiently" respond to it. I (HB) have heard complaints by mothers that toddlers did not calm down w/in a few days after the injections as promised by docs, but went on acting abnormally aggressively for quite some time. In other words, do yourself and your kid the favor to "forswear".

Second, the surgeries are not very good. Operating on infant-size genitalia is not an easy thing, and procedures such as clitorectomy (removal of the clitoris) resp. clitoriplasty (clitoral reduction) often leave the individual with significantly diminished or no sexual sensation later in life. In addition, bulging or even keloid scar tissue can build up, leaving an appearance that is not cosmetically good. Also, scars, even if not visible, can be the source of painful sensations even after decades still. A major problem is damaging of corpora, which causes almost unbearable pain when genital swellings ("erections") occur.

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Doctors often claim that they can create "perfectly functional" genitals, but to date only one follow-up study has been done, and it does not look good for their claims. (Dr. David Thomas, a pediatric urologist in Leeds, England, did a follow-up study on 12 intersexuals surgically "assigned" as girls; all had surgery that was unsatisfactory in some way and in 5 of the 12, the relocated sexually sensitive tissue had withered and died.) Many of us, as adults, suffer from intense anger and depression due to lack of genital sensation.

Post-surgical intersexuals can also be more prone to urinary tract and other infections.

Third, when artificial vaginas are constructed in children, they need to be "dilated" to keep from closing up. This involves the parent being forced to penetrate their child's genitals with a plastic "stent" on a daily basis for a long time. In any other context, this would be considered sexual abuse, and indeed many of us are psychologically and sexually damaged by this procedure. For that matter, asking a small child to expose their genitals repeatedly to crowds of doctors, interns, and medical students, which often happens on check-up visits, is also damaging.

Fourth, there is no real health or safety reason to operate on infant genitals solely for reasons of gender ambiguity. Any such reconstructive surgery can be done with much better results at or after puberty, when the area is adult-sized. Some doctors claim that allowing a child to grow up with ambiguous genitals will lead to that child feeling suicidal. In fact, there is absolutely no proof of this. (No such studies have been done on most intersexual conditions; the one small study that was donw by Dr. Justine Schrober on the quality of life of 12 men with very small penises found that they were doing fine and many had supportive spouses/partners.) However, many of us as adults have become suicidal due to unsatisfactory surgeries and our treatment at the hands of the (still experimenting) medical community.

What do I do if I have a child with ambiguous genitals?

Do not let the doctors operate on your child unless there is a real medical emergency, such as a blocked urethra or other urinary or bowel trouble. Make sure that they understand your position on intersexuality before your child is born, so that less trouble will arise. In some cases that we know of, doctors operated on children anyway without the knowledge or consent of the parents. Don't let this happen! Your child's genital tissue must remain unmarred until they are more physically mature.

What sex should I raise my baby as?

You need to make your own decision regarding how your baby is to be raised. We, as intersexuals, were generally able to decide what sex we felt ourselves to be by puberty. This means that you, the parent, not a team of doctors, can and should make the final decision about your baby's sex....as long as you remember that any choice you make might turn out to be the wrong one. Some of us do change sex later in life, and you should do your best to be open to this possibility. There is no scientific evidence for the medical community's claim that we will stay whatever sex we are raised. We are not blank slates at birth; we are simply do not have the means to make our wishes known in infancy. Although consulting the doctors involved can give you useful information to help you with your choices, only you can decide.

What should I tell my child about his/her condition?

As soon as your child is old enough to understand, you should explain things as clearly and simply as possible. Your child should never feel ashamed of his/her medical condition. Many of us suffered terribly from the secrecy and shame surrounding our intersexuality; our parents either refused to explain why we were put through painful surgeries and/or fed hormones at puberty, or they taught us that it was shameful and that we were never to speak of it. In some places, it was common for hospitals and doctors to destroy the medical records of intersex children, in order to prevent them from finding out how they were "abnormal". However, most of us figured it out anyway. Honesty is the best policy, and the only healthy basis for a parent-child relationship based on mutual respect, trust and love, which is essential for imparting the kid a solid foundation for leading an adult life that is not impeded by physical and mental health issues, possibly up to disablement.

Keep your child's medical checkups regarding their condition to a minimum, and chaperone to make sure that he/she is not used as a guinea pig or educational display. Learn as much as you can about your child's condition, and do not let yourself be made to feel stupid, incompetent, or incapable of making decisions. When your child is approaching puberty, it might be best to carefully discuss the possibilities and what they will entail. This might work best on the framework of family therapy, preferably with a gender specialist. Your child must be the final arbiter of what is or is not done to his/her body, and your job is to discover and advocate for his/her choice.

Finally, we strongly suggest that you join a support group. You are not alone, and neither is your child. Contact the Ambiguous Genitalia Parents Support Network listed below to find out if there is a group in your area, or if you should start one. You might also think about a support group for your child, so that he/she can know that they, too, are not alone. It's a good thing for them to meet adults with their condition who can reassure them about life.

Can an intersexual live a happy, fulfilled life?

Yes! Although no official studies have yet been done (we're all waiting for them) our anecdotal evidence suggests that intersexual children who are raised in a loving, supportive family with no surgical intervention until they wish it, and with parents who do not make them feel ashamed, are well-adjusted and happy, often with loving spouses/partners. (Other studies done on children with other disabilities have shown that they child's level of adjustment depends less on the severity or social obviousness of the disability and more on the presence or absence of loving family support.) It's those of us who had more, intervention, not less, who are more likely to have psychological and sexual dysfunction today.

The parent of an intersexual has been blessed with a very special and gifted child who requires a lot of patience and love. You will need a lot of courage to stand up for your child's real needs, but you are the only advocates your baby has who really care for them. We hope that in reading this, you will be able to make decisions about your child's treatment that truly work for their well-being and not some abstract illusion of social "normality".

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Recommmendable Literature

Alexander, Tamara (1997): The Medical Management of Intersexed Children: An Analogue for Childhood Sexual Abuse.

Barbin, Adélaïde Herculine (1978): Herculine Barbin dite Alexina B. Présenté par Michel Foucault. Paris: Éditions Gallimard 1978, reéd. 1993 (Collection Folio, 2470)

---- (1980): Herculine Barbin, being the recently discovered memoirs of a 19th century hermaphrodite. Intro. ed. by Michael Foucault. Transl. by Richard McDougall. New York, NY: Colophon

Diamond, Milton (1997): Sexual Identity and Sexual Orientation in Children With Traumatized or Ambiguous Genitalia. Journal of Sex Research 34/2: 199-222

Diamond, Milton/H. Keith Sigmundson (1997a): Commentary: Management of Intersexuality: Guidelines for dealing with persons with ambiguous genitalia. Archives of Pediatrics and Adolescent Medicine 151/10, Oct. 1997, 1046-1050; .

---- (1997b): Sex Reassignment at Birth: A Long Term Review and Clinical Implications — Reply. Archives of Pediatric and Adolescent Medicine 151/10, Oct. 1997, 1062-164;

Dreger, Alice Domurat (1998): Hermaphrodites and the Medical Invention of Sex. Harvard University Press

Ensel, Angelica/Verein Feministische Wissenschaft (1996): Nach seinem Bilde — Schönheitschirurgie und Schöpfungsphantasien in der westlichen Medizin. Bern: efef

Fausto-Sterling, Anne (1985): Myths of gender. Biological theories about women and men. New York: Basic Books

---- (1988): Gefangene des Geschlechts? Was biologische Theorien über Mann und Frau sagen. München/Zürich: Piper [germ. transl. of Fausto-Sterling 1985]

---- (1993): The five sexes: why male and female are not enough. The Sciences 33/2, March/April 1993, 20-26 [see also letters from the readers in the July/August 1993 issue]

---- (forthc.): Building Bodies: Biology and the Social Construction of Sexuality. New York, NY: Basic Books

Kessler, Suzanne J. (1990): The medical construction of gender: case management of intersexed infants. Signs: Journal of Women in Culture and Society 16/1, Autumn 1990, 3-26

---- (1998): Lessons from the Intersexed. Rutgers University Press

Kessler, Suzanne/Wendy McKenna (1978): Gender: an ethnomethodological approach. Chicago, IL: Chicago UP/New York, NY: Wiley (Wiley-Interscience Publications)

Schüßler, Marina/Kathrin Bode (1992): Geprüfte Mädchen, ganze Frauen: zur Normierung der Mädchen in der Kindergynäkologie. Bern: efef-verlag

Sgier, Irena/Verein Feministische Wissenschaft (1994): Aus eins mach zehn und zwei lass gehn — Zweigeschlechtlichkeit als kulturelle Konstruktion. Bern: efef

Recommendable Family Support Groups

H.E.L.P. (Hermaphrodite Education and Listening Post)
PO Box 26 292
Jacksonville, FL 32 226
USA
email: help@southeast.net
website: http://users.southeast.net/~help

EM Mermaids
Family Support Group for Children and Teenagers with Gender Health Issues
London, WC1N 3XX
UK
email: mermaidsuk@geocities.com
web: http://www.mermaids.freeuk.com/gidca.html

AIS Support Group - Great Britain
website @ http://www.medhelp.org./www/ais

AIS Support Group US
c/o Sherri Groveman
4203 Genesse #103-437
San Diego, CA 92 117 - 49 50
USA
Tel.: 619 - 569 - 52 54
email: aissg@aol.com

AIS Support Group Canada
c/o Patricia Flora
PO Box 425
Postal Station C
1117 Queen Street West
Toronto, ON M6J 3P5
Canada

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AISSG The Netherlands
Tel.: (038) 269845

AIS Selbsthilfegruppe
Postfach 7
71 201 Rottenburg am Neckar
Germany

AISSG Australia
Mary Russell
PO Box 3371
Logan Hyperdrome
Loganholme
Queensland 4129
Australia

Ambiguous Genitalia Support Network (AGSN)
428 East Elm St. #4/D
Lodi, CA 95 240 - 23 10
USA
Tel.: 209 - 369 - 0414

OUR KIDS
web: http://rdz.acor.org/lists/our-kids/

Kidnet
web: http://www.kidnet.de/

Kindernetzwerk e.V. für kranke und behinderte Kinder und Jugendliche in der Gesellschaft
Hanauer Str. 15
63 739 Aschaffenburg
Germany
Tel.: +49 - 60 21 - 120 30
Fax: +49 - 60 21 - 124 46

Vaginoplasty Support Network (North)
c/o Ms Sheila Naish
Royd Well Counselling
35 Royd Terrace
Hebden Bridge, West Yorks HX7 7BT
UK

Vaginoplasty Network (South)
c/o Hilary Everett
Gynaecology Social Worker
Social Services Dept.
St. Bartholomew's Hospital
West Smithfield
London EC1A 7BE
UK

Addendum: A note on follow-ups

The declared aim of the Moneyan treatment protocol is: "The result of all decisions should be a normal, well-adjusted child who will grow and develop into a mature adult, confident of his or her own identity and capable of achieving satisfactory sexuality and function." (Conte, Felix A. Melvin M. Grumbach: Pathogenesis, classification, diagnosis, and treatment of anomalies of sex. - In: De Groot, Leslie J. (ed.): Endocrinology, I-III. Philadelphia, PA: Saunders ²1989/III: 1810-1847 (=chapter 109)). To get a picture of the extent to which this is achievable, c.f. the following:

I Geiger/Sanchez (1982):

Summary

More than 20 girls with congenital AGS which were supervised by the pediatric departement during the last 10 years are now checked systematically for the present status of external genitalia. Most of them have passed one or more surgical correction, but none of them presented a cosmetically or functionally sufficient result. When the clitoris had been immersed beneath the cutis in the age of two to four years, it had grown until the late puberty to the extent of a thumb, causing discomfort especially during erection. In these cases, partial or even total clitoridectomy is unavoidable. [...]

No comment necessary

II Möbus/Sachweh/Knapstein/Kreienberg (1993):

In 24 patients with Mayer-Rokitansky-Küstner syndrome we carried out a post-operative follow-up examination. In the majority of cases, the operation had yielded functionally satisfactory results. 20 out of 24 of the patient collective now lead a healthy sexual life with an unimpaired emotional and sexual responsiveness. Early and regular postoperative cohabitation is vital for long-term success of surgical results and more important than regular of the wearing phantom. A successful operation greatly increases the patient's self-esteem, her feeling of being sexually attractive, and her self-confidence. Despite geral satisfaction with operational results, several women voiced criticism about inadequate perioperative psychological support. The patient's legitimate need for psychological help and guidance must not be neglected. This can take the form of regular discussions, in which detailed explanations about the disorder are given and which must also cover the subject of infertility, a cause of particular anguish in most women. This approach will contribute to enhancing the women's emotional stability and help them to better cope with their problems. It is our experience, that it is beneficial to include the patient's partner in such counselling.

Alas a few interesting facts are not mentioned in the summary... like they originally had 27 patients 3 of whom refused to take part in the follow-up (p.126) and those with an unfavorable outcome have had surgery at age 16-17, wheras the others had surgery at age 18-20 (p. 127). The note on post-op split-up of r'ships is on p. 128. 3 had serious problems w/body-image (p. 129). etc. etc.

III Lang/Neel/Bloemer (1973):

A new method of skin grafting of the artificial vagina in the operative treatment of vaginal aplasia is described. The mesh-graft technique of Tanner and Vandeput is used. The long-term results in 5 patients showed good healing and the long-term dilatations with protheses became unnecessary.

Same politics of summary-writing here... The note on none of their patients having done dilatation as they've been told is on p. 562.

The initial sections of the above FAQ essentially are based on Raven Kaldera's flyer for parents of IS kids.

Additional FAQS include:

• Intersexuality Frequently Asked Questions
• Frequently Asked Questions from Non-Intersexed People

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next: Frequently Asked Questions from Non-Intersexed People
~ all inside intersexuality articles
~ all articles on gender

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Greg Cason, Ph.D. discusses what it means to "be gay," confusion over one's sexual identity, coming out, depression and suicidal thoughts, and other gay teen issues. Dr. Cason is a psychologist, director of a college counseling center, and specializes in working with gays and lesbians.

David is the HealthyPlace.com moderator.

The people in blue are audience members.

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David: Good Evening. I'm David Roberts. I'm the moderator for tonight's conference. I want to welcome everyone to HealthyPlace.com.

Our topic tonight is "Gay Teen Issues." Our guest is psychologist, Greg Cason, who is a director of a college counseling center and an adjunct professor of psychology and does a lot of therapy work with gays and lesbians. He is on the Board of Directors of both the Los Angeles County Psychological Association and the Lesbian and Gay Psychotherapy Association of Southern California.

Good evening, Dr. Cason and welcome to HealthyPlace.com. We appreciate you being our guest tonight. It seems in the year 2000, where we see gay parades on TV, gay activism and social clubs, that being gay is okay; that anyone can come out and they'll be accepted. However, from stories that I've been reading from gay teens, there are still great troubles associated with being gay. Am I right about that?

Dr. Cason: Well, it is true that being gay and coming out has taken a positive turn in our society, but the problems are far from over. The prejudice that one encounters can still be quite violent and aggressive, as in the case of Matthew Shepard. But even more often, prejudice is subtle and takes the form of the oppressor saying they are taking a higher ground, such as in the case of the school board in Orange County, stating that they didn't want a gay group on campus.

Then, I don't think we can overlook the day-to-day taunting and rejection by peers, when they know or suspect that you are gay, not to mention teachers and educational curricula, that only focus on heterosexual relationships. Same with the church, and the media, and home life... the list goes on and on. We have a long way to go. A few battles have been won, but the war against prejudice is far from over.

David: I want to address several issues directly tonight. The first one being confusion over one's sexual identity, trying to decide whether you really are gay or not? As a teen, how does one come to that conclusion or at least try and clarify that in their mind?

Dr. Cason: That is a good question because many people think that we are all born heterosexual and some people just suddenly get the idea that they are gay (like a virus) and then they come down with it like a permanent affliction. That is not what really happens. Instead, the person usually has some notion of their sexuality very early on, but rarely do they have a vocabulary or understanding of it. They do realize they are different and in the world of the child and adolescent, difference can mean rejection, so it is often kept inside. If the child does have a notion that he or she has attraction to those of his or her same sex, then he or she may take further steps to hide and feel shame that they feel something that is obviously disliked in their world.

The issue really is how does a young child, adolescent, or adult begin to come out of the shell that society has helped to create. It is not a decision to become "gay" but an understanding for many that they are going to be truer to themselves, and risk the rejection of others to be who they are. But this is a complicated question that brings up issues of "what is a gay identity?" Which is a whole different ball of wax, but suffice it to say, that the process of coming out with your attraction to those of the same sex, in this society, is a risky business.

David: So what you are saying is: you don't just wake up one day and say "I'm gay". There are a series of self-exploratory steps that may lead to a realization and acceptance of "this is who I am."

Dr. Cason: Absolutely! It is a more of an unveiling of, than a sudden change.

David: And I think you brought up a good point before, what does "being gay" mean, exactly?

Dr. Cason: Huge Question! For the purposes of simple discussion, it has been defined by many as an exclusive attraction to those of the same sex. But what about those who have some attraction to the opposite sex? Do they neatly fit into the third category of bisexual? Usually not. Also, there are those who have sex with members of their own sex, sometimes even exclusively, yet describe themselves as heterosexual for any number of reasons. The reasons could be that they only are "on top" or the one who is more dominate in the sexual situation, or it is cultural, or they are in prison, etc. There is no clear label for everyone. But, in American culture, being gay has come to not only define your attraction and sexual behavior, but also membership in a community and even a culture unto itself. I do not think that is at all bad, but it is not the total of those who may have sexual relations or attraction to those of their same sex.

David: I am not gay, so I haven't been through that experience. But I'm wondering if during your teenage years, there can be some confusion for gay teens on whether they are actually "attracted" to other male teens or whether this is some phase? I'm sure for many teens who already know they are gay, there is also some strong denial that this is actually so.

Dr. Cason: Kinsey had a scale where one is either a 0, or exclusively attracted to those of the opposite sex, and the scale progressed up to 6 for those who had an exclusive attraction to those of the same sex. I was a Kinsey 6, so I didn't question that it was there, I felt it strongly. What I questioned was my ability to be accepted in a world that was strongly anti-gay, so I hid it. In fact, I kept it so under wraps that my high school voted me "Senior Class Sweetheart." But many teens, either because they have a more mixed attraction (like a lower number on the Kinsey scale), or they are more conflicted psychologically, or maybe they are just really good at denial (which I believe a great number of those we are talking about have developed that as a coping mechanism), then those people might appear more "confused."

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David: Here are a couple of audience comments, then we'll get to some questions.

timeforce: The moderator's last comment is an accurate description of how I felt. Personally, I have learned to think of being gay in only the sexual part of my life as a human being. OK, I bond better with males, but that doesn't mean to say that I reject others who form part of the rest of my life.

Dr. Cason: The first comment by timeforce is a very interesting one and illustrates what some people feel if they "come out," which is that they must turn away from those who they have grown to love because of this other aspect about them. That would be a mistake. However, it is not unusual for those in your life to reconsider the relationship if they have problems with homosexuality. Also, gay identity goes through many stages. Those that view sex and relationships as separate are a subgroup that does exist. But sometimes people get tired of that life and go through another stage which is where they may seek to stay with others like themselves, primarily. There is no superior way of being, in my opinion, but they can look quite different and each side may criticize the other. I prefer an integration, where I am open about my identity. I enjoy same-sex venues and interests, but also the heterosexual dominated venues. We just usually don't think about things quite this way, but we all have our preferences.

Aisha-Kevin: You ask what "being gay" means. It is just a part of sexuality to me. I am a sixteen year old teen. Yes, being gay and transsexual is a part of me. Three of my close friends are gay. We all have different interests, styles, taste in music. We're normal teens! To each of us, being gay means something different. But we don't want to be "different," we don't want to be "straight" either. We all just want to be accepted. You are right that there is no clear label for everyone. Sexuality and gender are like a sphere. It's okay to be on one point of any of the thousands of points.

My question is: how do we make ourselves known without appearing to want "special" rights as opposed to equal rights? I think we deserve a few textbook pages, etc.

Dr. Cason: I agree with Aisha-Kevin! The funny thing is that the term "special rights" even exists, but is illustrative of what we call heterosexism. Heterosexism is the view of life that everything heterosexual is "normal" and that anything else is strange or different. I like to think of it as the "innocent until proven guilty" phenomenon because we view everyone as heterosexual and treat them that way until evidence proving something else is screaming at us.

I agree, we need to have information about gays in textbooks, and not as a chapter in Abnormal Psychology, but as an integrated example in an economics class, history class, literature, music, etc. We are everywhere, so let's honor that fact. Why need it be something that is hidden? What kind of message does that send?

David: Earlier, Dr. Cason, you mentioned gay teens being taunted or ridiculed. Here's a question on that:

PaulMichael: I'm sixteen years old and I get picked on by the jocks and kickers for being gay. I don't tell anyone I'm gay but I'm obvious. I'm tired of being made fun of and when I try to get help from the school counselors, they just tell me to ignore it. I'm depressed and ready to drop out of school.

Dr. Cason: Wow, PaulMichael. What you are saying rings true for thousands of teens out there right now, and did for many who are adults now and reading your words. Let me address a couple of things first for you. Someone needs to listen to you. If the school counselors are not doing their job and telling you to "ignore it," then you need to ignore the school counselors. You need to find someone who will listen to you and help you deal with this, which means calling the nearest gay and lesbian community center and asking for a teen hotline or group. Of if there is a teacher that you feel you can trust that may be a way to get help, or go to the Principal.

You did not mention your parents, but even if you are unable to come out to them (which I could understand), you can still ask them to intervene. Your voice needs to be heard. What they are doing is wrong. If you start to feel very low, or hopeless about the situation, or helpless that nothing is being done, then you really need to do something. If you start to feel like harming or hurting yourself, or anyone else, you need to tell someone. Make your voice heard that you are hurting. You do not need to come out, but it is not good that those people are doing what they are doing.

But this also brings up another point, which is that many who are gender-atypical acting, such as effeminate boys or masculine girls, are often identified and called "fag," "queer," or "dyke" and tortured emotionally and sometimes physically.

gayisok: PaulMichael, my solution, though maybe not the best one, was to cut loose from the crowd and become a loner.

Dr. Cason: I would not recommend being a loner. Maybe that crowd is not for you, but try to find someone with whom you can feel comfortable. Isolation is more of a problem than a solution.

Aisha-Kevin: I find that the biggest problem for me is not from the taunting by other teens, but the taunting from within. First of all, I had to change my religion to help feel more "right." A change I don't regret making and I'm glad to have made. But there are other things. Like in the change room at school, I always change in the corner, facing the wall. In gym class, itself, I can't look at any girls. I can't look them in the eyes. I can't look at my religion teacher in the eye. No one needs to make fun of me, the guilt within speaks volumes to me itself, without other's help.

siouxsie: My parents want me to be straight. I'm fifteen years old and they want me to stop being gay and date girls. If I don't, they told me, they would put me in a mental hospital. Can they do that?

Dr. Cason: Being gay is not a reason to put someone in a mental hospital. Any ethical mental health professional would say that your parents have work to do, to accept the situation rather than you being the problem. But I think siouxsie illustrates one of the most difficult points which is that parents are often problematic and that coming out has tremendous risks.

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sspark: Dr. Cason, do you feel that teens have a problem knowing what "coming out" really is. Activists have sensationalized "coming out" which seems to be confusing. Please comment on this.

Dr. Cason: To me, coming out is a gradual step-by-step process. It is not a thing that happens one day. It starts with a recognition of what is going on inside, then an exploration, then maybe telling someone, and so on. I don't believe it ever really ends. By me appearing on this web-cast, I am coming out another step. But, I have many, many miles left in my journey as a human being and as a gay man. And I am a fallible human being.

Robert1: I just turned seventeen and have always thought that I was gay, but recently I met a woman who I find attractive. I don't think I'm straight, so now I'm confused, and my head is really messed up.

Dr. Cason: There is no reason to label yourself or think that you "must" act a certain way. If you find a woman attractive, then that is OK, just as OK as finding a man attractive. The point is, there need not be a "right" or "wrong" way of being. Even if society demands that we label ourselves, we do not have to listen to that demand. However, if you choose to label yourself, as I do, that is OK too!

David: Are you saying, Dr. Cason, that it's okay to explore your sexuality, and it's part of the process people go through to figure out who they are?

Dr. Cason: Yep, we are humans after all. We learn through experience. But there is no "must."

If you do not want to have sex with someone of your same, or opposite sex, then don't. It isn't that we should try everything, but rather it is OK to experiment with things we may be attracted to (provided that it is of mutual consent and no one is hurt, of course).

David: Here are some more audience comments about things being said tonight:

sspark: Good point about coming out being gradual. Also, I think it isn't necessary to tell the whole world of your sexuality. I look at it as a 'need to know' situation, otherwise, it doesn't serve a purpose. Aren't there laws now that protect kids from sexual harassment at school? It seems I read that courts are holding parents of those bully kids responsible for their actions.

timeforce: The gradual process is still ongoing with me. Recently, I came out to a bunch of workmates (I drive large trucks for a living). Having spent thirteen years after coming out for the first time, I found this time it was a lot easier. So, for all those guys and gals here, while it appears to be an empty comment, It does get easier as time goes on.

Dr. Cason: I agree with all those comments!

David: Dr. Cason's website is here.

Dr. Cason: Yes, please visit my site and send me an email if you would like!

David: Thank you, Dr. Cason, for being our guest tonight and for sharing this information with us. And to those in the audience, thank you for coming and participating. I hope you found it helpful. Also, if you found our site beneficial, I hope you'll pass our URL around to your friends, mail list buddies, and others: http://www.healthyplace.com

Here's the link to the HealthyPlace.com GLBT Community. You can click on this link and sign up for the mail list at the top of the page so you can keep up with events like this.

Dr. Cason: Thank you very much. It has been a pleasure and I wish you all the best in your personal coming out processes. Good night everyone!

David: Thanks again, Dr. Cason. Good night everyone.

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Disclaimer: We are not recommending or endorsing any of the suggestions of our guest. In fact, we strongly encourage you to talk over any therapies, remedies or suggestions with your doctor BEFORE you implement them or make any changes in your treatment.

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Roy Young talks about "Gay and Lesbian Relationships." He also touched on the reason for sexual orientation; issues and differences in gay, lesbian and heterosexual marriages; and rape as a precursor to homosexuality.

David HealthyPlace.com moderator.

The people in blue are audience members.

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David: Our topic tonight is "Gay and Lesbian Relationships." Our guest is psychotherapist, Roy Young, MSW. Mr. Young is based in New York City. He specializes in treating gay men and lesbians in individual and couples therapy.

David: Good evening, Mr. Young and welcome to HealthyPlace.com. We appreciate you being our guest tonight. When I announced the tonight's topic, I received an email from a lesbian couple who essentially said it's difficult to have a committed relationship when the law won't let you have one, ie, no marriage certificate. I'm wondering what your answer to that would be and what suggestions you have to deal with that.

Roy Young:I think that they are correct, but that may not be the main problem to the stability of marriages. Eric Erickson noted that It is the "sad truth that in any system based on suppression, exclusion, and exploitation, the suppressed, excluded and exploited unconsciously believe in the evil image which they are made to represent by those who are dominant."

David: So how would you suggest that gay and lesbian couples deal with that issue?

Roy Young: There are a lot of ways to deal with internalized homophobia. Having a good gay support network to talk with is important. Then, of course, you may decide to live in a community which is homosexual friendly. Therapy can be really helpful for some people. Coming out publicly may be a way of facing your fear.

David: Since you work with gay and lesbian couples, what would you say are the biggest relationship issues that they face?

Roy Young: There are a number of issues: there are all the issues which faces straight couples, which we can talk about also. I don't know the exact statistic these days, but straight couples divorce about 60% of the time--if anyone has a better statistic please let me know. There are a lot of reasons for this in both straight and lesbian couples, and those are often dealt with in-family therapy. A lot of the problems come from issues (not necessarily gay or lesbian) having to do with the couple repeating in their marriage or seeking in their marriage certain familiar things they experienced in their family of origin. A good book explaining this is Getting the Love You Want: a Guide for Couples, Harville Hendrix, Ph.D. I recommend that you talk with a qualified Imago therapist if you really want to understand this stuff, but the book is written for the layman.

David: Here's an audience question regarding sexual orientation prior to getting involved in a relationship:

Joden: So even before a relationship, what sort of work might a therapist do with someone who is uncertain of their sexual orientation. For example, identifying if the attraction to the same sex is due in part to abuse issues?

Roy Young: Good question. It's really two questions. I think it's always helpful to work with a therapist when someone is not sure of their sexual orientation. The therapist might explore with the client, for instance, the nature of his or her sexual fantasies, especially masturbatory fantasies. After all, its the client who was making these fantasies up.

As for the second question, people are complex, but it seems unlikely to me that abuse would change sexual orientation. Sexual orientation seems to be incredibly strong and fixed very early in life.

David: Yet, Mr. Young, there are many people who aren't sure of their sexual orientation until they get into a relationship and it becomes more settled in their minds.

Roy Young: Well, getting into a relationship could go a long way as to settling the question of sexual orientation. Unfortunately, all too many people, both men and women, get into a relationship early in life, perhaps have children, and discover in their 30's, 40's, or 50's that they had always wanted the sexual companionship and love of someone of their own sex.

mucky: I wonder if you might address the splitting of a relationship after 12 years and how to separate property etc. We have a house, cars, etc. together, and since there is no legal standard, what do you do?

Roy Young: Good question. I'm not sure whether there being no legal standard is a disability or an advantage--Shakespeare said "the law is an ass," but that doesn't answer your question, how do you separate property, etc.? I don't know how to answer that. One of the standards which is often applied is that each partner is entitled to take out of the relationship in proportion to what he put in.

Peg26: Good evening Mr. Young. My question is about sexuality and abuse. I am 27 years old and was raped 7 years ago. Before the rape, I never really dated. Since then I began to realize that I was a lesbian. However, being in a committed relationship with my partner of the last three years, I am beginning to wonder if I really am gay or straight. Do you think this questioning is related to the rape? How does one know what kind of relationship he/she is orientated towards?

Roy Young: Sometimes it's really hard to know whether you are gay or straight. Sexuality covers a broad spectrum, and sometimes you can have feelings both ways. Also, societal and family pressures can make a person not want to admit their gayness. As I said, looking at your sexual fantasies may give you some indication, but if you have sexual fantasies for both men and women, it's going to take more than that to sort it out. I suggest psychotherapy.

Again, I doubt very much that your being raped (I am so sorry) would have anything to do with your sexual orientation. However, it often helps to talk about it in therapy.

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David: Here's an audience comment on that subject:

mucky: I agree that sexual orientation is a fixed thing; there are numerous heterosexuals who were sexually abused, and I have always said I did not think it was a precursor to homosexuality.

Roy Young: Exactly.

Nicole: How does legal commitment figure into heterosexual couples where it requires a legal process to separate. Is it too easy for homosexual couples to separate?

Roy Young: It depends on whether you think that separation is a good thing. Sometimes the marriages are a good thing for a while, but one or the other of the partners change and grow and the other doesn't.

Even more than that, there is some good research showing that there are strong Darwinian forces which make couples change partners after the first children are old enough to take care of themselves. I believe that. I don't think that the extremely high divorce rate is a sign that people these days are weak or bad. Changing partners--that is, divorce--seems to be part of the evolutionary scheme of things. You may just have to go with it.

David: So, are you saying that the belief that many of our parents grew up with that "marriage is forever," isn't something we should carry with us anymore. That we should get used to the idea that changing partners is "normal" and "acceptable?"

Roy Young: Yes, but not necessarily desirable. I think, perhaps, I have been talking around the real question here, which is how can I save my lesbian or gay marriage. That's a very hard question to answer because it depends on a number of things. I suspect that you have already tried talking with the other person, carefully listening to each other, compromise, and the other mature, commonsense things that people do and it hasn't worked. There can be a lot of reasons it has not worked. If alcoholism, addiction, or abuse are part of the problems, then you need to seek the help of a therapist or alcoholism counselor. This is a very difficult problem since alcoholics and addicts seldom stop voluntarily until they are in a lot of pain. Simply being divorced may not be enough to ease the pain.

Peg26: Is it possible for sexual orientations to change? I mean, what if you really thought you were gay, lived that life for years and years - happily and unhappily - and then begin questioning?

Roy Young: I'm not sure that it's that sexual orientation that changes. It may be that you're simply discovering some of your other sexual desires. They may have been there all along. The problem is that sexual orientation is not black or white.

David: Thank you, Mr. Young, for being our guest tonight and for sharing this information with us. We appreciate you coming. Good night, everyone.

Roy Young: Thank you for having me.

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Disclaimer: We are not recommending or endorsing any of the suggestions of our guest. In fact, we strongly encourage you to talk over any therapies, remedies or suggestions with your doctor BEFORE you implement them or make any changes in your treatment.

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Joe Kort, MSW will talk to us about gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender, and questioning (GLBTQ) individuals and their family members. He will also talk about coming out, sexual orientation, GLBT relationships, sexuality and sexual behavior, and more.

David is the HealthyPlace.com moderator.

The people in blue are audience members.

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David: Good evening everyone. I'm David Roberts. I'm the moderator for tonight's conference. I want to welcome everyone to HealthyPlace.com. Our topic tonight is "Coming Out and other GLBT Issues". Our guest tonight, Joe Kort, works primarily with gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender, and questioning individuals (GLBTQ) and their family members.

In addition, Mr. Kort is a certified Imago Relationships Therapist and is certified in the area of sexual addiction and compulsivity. Besides doing therapy, he leads retreats for single or partnered gay and lesbian individuals to help them explore their own sexual identity and develop positive relationships.

Good Evening Joe, and welcome to HealthyPlace.com. Thank you for being here tonight. I think, for most people, the hardest thing in life is to confide in others what we consider to be a "deep dark secret" about ourselves.

Though being gay, lesbian, bi, or transexual (GLBT) is not as "surprising" as it was 10-15 years ago, is it still a "deep dark secret" for many?

Joe Kort: I think it depends on the area in which you live and I can tell you that here in Michigan, it sure is for MANY Gays and Lesbians.

David: I read the story on your website, but for the audience, can you recount your feelings about coming out to your family? This was in the 1970s.

Joe Kort: Sure. My mother sent me to a therapist because I was becoming a loner. I was an outcast in my school being called faggot and sissy and spotted for being Gay before I even knew what it was. In therapy, the therapist asked me what kind of girls I liked, and I lied at first, but then told him I really liked boys. He was of the psychoanalytic approach, and pathologized my homosexuality, but asked lots of questions and totally desensitized me about talking about being gay. He and I would argue about the fact that I could change. He saw my adolescence as a "second chance" to become "normal". He taught me that I was gay because I had a smothering domineering mother (which I did), and a distant, absent, uninvolved father ( which I did also).

So when I came out to them at age 18 in 1982, I blamed them for making me this way. I don't recommend doing this at home, LOL!, Anyway, we all went screaming into family therapy, and the therapist looked at me and said, "why would you do a thing like that, how angry you are to blame them?" after he had taught me that they were to blame for years.

David:Here's a description of Joe's first coming out attempt. I got this from his website:

"I tried to tell my mother originally at the age of 15, in 1978, during the Chanukah season. I was driving with my driver's permit and we were on the expressway. My timing was not great. I started crying, telling her I had something awful to tell her. I started by telling her I was different. I could not go on. She lovingly touched my shoulder and told me that everything would be fine, and she gave me some Chanukah money. She then got me in therapy."

Of course, being a teen, many times things seem a lot worse than they actually are. Now, as an adult looking back, was it "that difficult"?

Joe Kort: No it was not. But I think it would have been a LOT easier if the therapists had been more supportive.

David: I 'm wondering, do you recommend, as a general rule, that individuals come out and tell significant others, parents, and family members, that they are Gay or Lesbian?

Joe Kort: Yes I do. But I caution them to understand that when they come out of the closet, the family goes in the closet. They should give their family and significant others time. I do coach for Gays and Lesbians to be out and authentic with their loved ones.

David: It may be easier for adults to come out, but what about teenagers. That is a huge risk for them. In their minds, everything is at risk, including being rejected by their family.

Joe Kort: Yes that is a LOT harder for them given their position in the family.....I would encourage that they be aware of PFLAG (Parents, Friends and Family of Lesbians and Gays) and possibly if they can, go to a GLBT community center to talk to other teens about how it went for them.

I still would encourage them to be out and open about who they are, and educate their parents about the importance of honesty and authenticity. I know it is not this easy but I think the alternative of keeping it in, is much more damaging.

David: The questions are coming in. Let's get to those:

redtop: Joe, welcome and thanks. I came out to my wife after 22 years and to my parents one year after that. Now I regret telling my parents. What is the best way to deal with their denial of my orientation?

Joe Kort: My belief is for you to keep talking about it, letting them know how your life is going, if you are dating, what being Gay means to you, etc. I believe it is our (GLBT) responsibility to keep the discussion going about our lives, just as the rest of the family talks about their lives. The more you talk, the more desensitized they will become. I would also let them know that they don't have to agree with you about your orientation, but just listen and understand.

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David:Here's an audience comment:

chuckles: I can sure relate to that. I am 54 and I knew that I was different, but I did not know what I was. I never did feel like my mother or father had anything to do with the way that I felt. I knew that I had different feelings, but never thought of telling anyone In high school. I was very careful, dated very little, but I knew that I did not want to be called a faggot. Back in the late 50's, I did not even know about GLBT communities, maybe there were not any.

butterfly1: How common is coming out at 45, having been married for 26 years, with 3 children, having a past history of incest/sexual abuse? I have been separated for two years. I lived with a woman for one year. the children (2) are ok and support me. The youngest is 15 and holds anger. She says she wants me happy, but yet is afraid of her peers reaction.

Joe Kort: It is very common. Sexual abuse really complicates the coming out process. The individual was traumatized by the abuse, and had to keep a secret and pretend nothing happened, or is wrong and fear that telling will get them in trouble. Then coming out parallels that experience, so people stay closeted a LOT longer because of this. I find this to be true of many of my GLBT clients who were sexually abused.

David: I want to break "coming out" into two different lifespans here -- one, the teenage years, the other as an adult. As a teen, how, specifically, would you suggest coming out to your parents?

Joe Kort: I would encourage them first to really make sure they feel okay and comfortable themselves as teenagers with their gayness because if they are not they will only further upset the parent and reinforce that they may be able to "change". I would also coach them to tell their parents that there is nothing wrong with their orientation and that they feel okay about it and want to keep a dialogue going about it. It is when the talking stops that trouble arises. I would also coach them to let their parents know it is not the parents fault.

David: Now, what about as an adult, coming out to your parents and possibly your husband or wife, and children.

Joe Kort: I would coach much the same to adults about how to come out to parents. Not much differently, to be honest. Other than with teens, I might coach them to talk about their fear of being asked to leave the home. And to both, to talk about how they fear total rejection. Clarify that they are telling the family to maintain a closeness with them, not to be distant.

As for telling a spouse, one has to be very careful in our culture when there are children involved and they are minors. The court systems here still discriminate heavily against the GLBT parent and although most GLBT want to stay in integrity and tell during the marriage it could be very very harmful to them legally, in keeping their visitation and custody of their children. It has to be handled very very sensitively.

I also see a lot of GLBT clients who are heterosexually married, taking most or all of the blame for marrying. They have to understand that there is another side to this from the spouse, and although they may not know about the homosexuality, there is a tendency for the spouse to be just as invested in the emotional distance, a mixed-orientation marriage creates.

David: On that point, here's an audience question:

mkwrnck: I've been out for about a year, I am 46 and I am going through a nasty divorce (wife is angry, wants to "get even," feels like she has nothing to show for 17 years of marriage). I have an 11-year-old daughter to whom I'm out (she seems pretty accepting), and even though I want my wife to be OK with all of this, I know I can't affect her thinking or healing. But I'm struggling about how to let go, get on with my life, have a relationship with my daughter, and not be swayed by her stuff while she's going through with this divorce.

Joe Kort: First, Good for you for being out to your daughter. That takes a lot of courage. Second, you cannot do anything about your wife's reaction. You have to let her go through it and reassure your daughter that this has NOTHING to do with her. It will take time for your wife to be ok with this.

mkwrnck: For years, I was petrified about my parent's possible reaction, but they have been GREAT! I think it may have helped that my wife, in her anger, outed me to them. I just have to accept that she may never be OK with it.

Joe Kort: I would encourage you to just let your wife know it makes sense that she is angry and reactive, and keep letting her know that you are in fact going on with your life.

David: In a marriage situation, you warned everyone about the legal consequences of coming out. Are you suggesting that they not come out under those circumstances unless they are willing to possibly pay the price?

Joe Kort: Yes. That is what I have heard attorneys advise. It is very, very unfortunate, but for the sake of the children, to ensure they still can maintain contact with the GLBT parent.

HPCharles: In client situations where there was sexual abuse as a child, did the abuse result in/contribute to/cause the orientation?

Joe Kort: NEVER....EVER......EVER!!! It can cause people to "act out" homosexually and this is not about orientation this is about behavior, but NEVER create or contribute to orientation.

jaikort: How did your family react to you coming out of the closet?

Joe Kort: At first not well, but over time they came to accept it. I think my sister helped a lot as she was totally accepting of it from the beginning.

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David: Was it a relief to you?

Joe Kort: YES, .totally. It was a HORRIBLE secret to keep all by myself.

David: At the time, did you feel a compulsion to tell someone?

Joe Kort: Yes I did. I kept worrying it would slip or someone would be able to really tell and out me. I actually had a friend ultimately do that to me. It was horrifying but freeing at the same time.

David: It's one thing to tell your parents, or a significant other, that you are gay or lesbian. It's another thing to "show them" by bringing your friends or partners around. What is your suggestion in dealing with that aspect of it?

Joe Kort: It is another level and layer of coming out. It is almost like starting over to introduce a partner. They will feel that now it is "in their face", and prefer that you not bring them around or talk about them. I recommend that you absolutely bring them around and talk about them, not in an "in your face" way but just no different than your siblings might talk about or bring around their partners. And to make sure the family knows that if the partner is not accepted at functions, then they may not come themselves. I would not force the issue for acceptance, but I do coach you to bring your partner around and let them know this is a permanent part of your life.

redtop: Joe, can I even expect to be "free" at 52 years of age?

Joe Kort: I am not sure what you mean by "free"? Can you explain?

redtop: I am an only child with aging parents; I do have a partner, but my parents don't recognize my relationship.

David:What redtop may be saying is, do you think that at 52, it's worth coming out to your older parents, and do you feel at the age of 52, coming out can be psychologically freeing?

Joe Kort: YES and YES absolutely!!! I would encourage you to make your own decision on telling your parents, but I see no reason not to, unless you personally do not wish to. And I think at ANY age it is psychological freedom to be out and open.

David: Do you think a marriage can survive (male-female) if one partner is gay or lesbian?

Joe Kort: Yes I do, and I think it takes a LOT of communication to keep it going. The hardest part, I think, is negotiating whether or not it will be monogamous. I truly believe it is up to the couple. My personal and professional opinion though, is that it is hard enough relating to one person in a relationship, let alone any more!!

David: You are also a relationships therapist. You hold retreats for gay and lesbian individuals and couples. Could you please describe what you deal with at these retreats?

Joe Kort: Sure. The weekends are based on the book, "Getting The Love You Want" for Couples and "Keeping the Love You Find" for singles by Dr. Harville Hendrix. Although these books are written to a heterosexual audience, it is a people based relationship therapy. The whole premise is to figure out how you came together and why, how you got stuck and how to get unstuck. Gays and Lesbians have very few supports, and this model supports staying together, and how to manage conflict. Its basic premise is that conflict is good and natural for the relationship, you just need to know how to deal with it. So couples come to save relationships, help keep a new one going, or to even end one. The weekends for couples and singles also looks at internalized homophobia, and I don't care how long, or how out you are, we have it our whole lives in one form or another.

David:Here's the link to Joe's website, which is very informative: http://www.joekort.com.

Joe, are the relationship issues between gay and lesbian couples any different than hetero couples?

Joe Kort: YES, there are many differences. One is the internalized homophobia piece not being out as a couple, even when it is safe to be out, calling each other too butch or fem, the belief that our relationships do not last or cannot be monogamous. Also, two women bring something very different and special than two men, or a man and a woman couple. I find that with woman, there is at times a fusion/unhealthy merging because both have been conditioned as a woman to be relational in a heterosexual couple. The male slows this down from his being socialized to be distant emotional. At the same time, two men are raised to be distant emotionally, and as a result, there is often a "parallel relationship", or good friends type relationship, because there is not a woman pushing for relational experience. These are sweeping generalizations, but I often see this and have read about it in my practice. I also think that GLBT have tremendous difficulty accepting differences in their relationships, more so than our straight counterparts do, because we have been unaccepted our whole lives.

David: So are you saying that even though a person may have sexual feelings for another man or woman, that they are still conditioned psychologically to behave as a man or woman would in a hetero relationship and this makes a same-sex relationship difficult?

Joe Kort: YES, that's what I am saying. As a therapist, I find myself helping female couples differentiate and tolerate the differences, and reducing the merging that can occur, because both are groomed to be relational. As for the men, I find myself coaching them to come into the relationship more, and stop all the over-working and volunteer activities and remember that they have a partner. This is very common in the couples that I treat.

David: I also want to address the issue of homophobia amongst gays and lesbians. Are you saying that even though a person is gay or lesbian, that there is still a part of themselves that either feels there's something wrong with that, or that dislikes others who are?

Joe Kort: Yes. Consider that we were raised from birth to be homophobic and heterosexist. That is imprinted upon us, and it is my belief that it takes a lifetime to undo this. We are the worst to each other regarding being homophobic because we find out that we are the very thing we were taught to hate and despise. It is a terrible bind.

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Marci: My partner and I have been together for 13 years. Her children call me 'Aunt Marci". How common is this and do you feel it is ok?

Joe Kort: I think that is up to the couple. I would challenge you, however, as to why they need to call you aunt? Would this be the case if you were male? Would you be called Uncle? You are their stepmother so why not just your first name? That would be my question to you. I do not find this to be common at all to call the partner aunt or uncle.

David: Here are a few audience comments on what's been said tonight:

samb: Wonder if Joe Kort remembers Pogo's wisdom: We have found the enemy and he is us!

cb888: I was never taught to despise but that I would be judged by God as a sinner.

chuckles: I felt that I was using a lot of energy not accepting my feelings. I feel much better just accepting who I am. Now I can channel my energy to positive ways, even though I keep the secret.

David: Joe, the next person (a male) is in a relationship with a bisexual man, who he says is more gay than hetero. Here's his question:

cb888: In any sexual relationship is the self responsible for orgasms or is this effort to achieve sexual pleasure in the relationship supposed to be shared. He says it's my responsibility, I say, our shared responsibility.

Joe Kort: I say both. For you to tell him what you like so he knows how to pleasure you, and for him to ask and be empathic to what your needs are.

chuckles: It has to be shared or it is not a relationship.

Joe Kort: I agree, chuckles.

cb888: One side of the family knows and the other does not. My children were raised with no bias toward gays, and now later in life I've married a bisexual and they love him, but his family is not the same accepting nature. They tease him about painted toenails and the color pink. It ticks me off!

Joe Kort: I am sorry to hear that. I really am. You and he might want to reconsider how much time you spend with his family, or limit the amount of time.

butterfly1: Since coming out, I have much more problems than when I was stuffing and ignoring. My usband was the only man I was ever with, other then abusers. I was only ever with one woman, and that was in the last year. I am finding it hard to find my place to save those I love happiness.

Joe Kort: I would recommend to you, butterfly, that you get therapy to examine why you are having difficulties. It makes sense that when you were married to a man your problems were minimal because the natural power struggle and conflicts cannot surface in a mixed orientation marriage. You are out of denial now, and conscious living IS more difficult, but MUCH more freer.

David: And now, It's getting late. I want to thank Joe for being our guest tonight. Sharing part of his life story with us and his knowledge and expertise.

His website address is www.joekort.com.

Joe Kort: Good night everyone. I appreciate being here tonight, and having the audience participate.

David: Thank you everyone for coming tonight, and good night.

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Here's a list of nationwide emergency and crisis numbers. If you are in crisis, 1st call 911 while you're looking in the front of your local yellow pages. That's where you'll usually find the local suicide prevention hotline or crisis center. You can also try your local Gay-Lesbian Center, which usually offers referrals for counseling, domestic violence and suicide prevention. If you can't get through to any of those, try one of the crisis line below.

RED = 24 HOURS

Visit www.metanoia.org/suicide* which contains conversations and writings for suicidal persons to read. If you're feeling at all suicidal, be sure to read this page. It might just save your life.

Girls and Boys Town Crisis Line
24 hours a day, every day
800.448.3000, or for TDD 800.448.1833

1. Alcohol a Drug Abuse Hotline 800-ALCOHOL 800.454.8966
2. Boys Town National Crisis Line - 24 hours a day, every day: the only national crisis line that children and parents can call with any problem, any time. You can refer troubled families to the Hotline which is staffed by caring professionals. 800.448.3000 or for TDD call 800.448.1833
3. California Missing Children - 800.222.3463
4. Center for Disease Control and Prevention, http://www.cdc.gov/
5. Child Find/A Way Out - 800.292.9688
   Emergency and free mediation services.
6. Child Find of America, PO Box 277, New Platz, NY 12561 800.426.5678 Leave a message.
7. Childhelp USA's National Child Abuse Hotline - 800.422.4453
8. Children of the Night, Short term crisis - 800.551.1300
9. National Hopeline Network Crisis Hotline -
   800.SUICIDE 784-2433 24/7 Website (administration 1 800 442 4673)
10. Cocaine Helpline - 800.262.2463
11. Covenant House Nineline, Short-term crisis 800.999.9999 24 hours
12. Gay and Lesbian National Hotline - 888-843-4564
13. Gay and Transgender Hate Crime Hotline - 800-616-HATE
14. (GLBT) Youth Support Line - 800-850-8078
15. Grief Recovery Helpline - 6a-9p PST - 800.445.4808
16. Kidshelp:kidshelp.sympatico.ca - a service for young people which also addresses issues in addition to suicide.
17. Mental Health Crisis Line- 800.222.8220
18. Metanoia - Contains conversations and writings for suicidal persons to read. If you're feeling at all suicidal, be sure to read this page before you take any action. It might just save your life. www.metanoia.org/suicide
19. National Adolescent Suicide Hotline - 800-621-4000
20. National AIDS Hotline - English - 1-800-232-4636
21. National Center for Missing a Exploited Children - 24-hour hotline at 800.843.5678 and see Missing Children
22. National Child Abuse Hotline - 800.422.4453
23. National Child Pornography Tipline and CyberTipline - Handles calls fromindividuals reporting the sexual exploitation of children through the production and distribution of pornography. 800.843.5678 or http://www.cybertipline.com/
24. National Council on Child Abuse a Family Violence - 800.222.2000
25. National Crisis Helpline - for use in locating the nearest crisis service in the United States - 800.999.9999
26. National Life Center Hotline/Pregnancy Hotline - 800.848.5683
27. National Resource Center on Child Sexual Abuse - 800.KIDS.006
28. National Suicide Prevention Lifeline - 800-273-TALK
29. National Victim Center Infolink - M-F 8:30a-5:30p - 800.FYI.CALL
30. National Youth Crisis Hotline CA - crisis for runaways, parents needing immediate assistance - 800.448.4673
31. Oklahoma TEENLINE 800.522.8336 Hours: noon to midnight This number is available throughout the US
32. Suicide Prevention Crisis Lines - Call 911
33. Texas Youth Hotline 800.210.2278 24 hours a day. Free call from anywhere in Texas or click here.
34. The Trevor Project - 24-hour suicide prevention hotline for gay youths. Call before you fall: The Trevor Project, a nonprofit organization named for the short film about a 13-year-old boy who attempts suicide because of his sexuality, has established a national toll free, 24-hour suicide prevention hotline for gay youths. 866.488.7386.

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next: Teen Hotlines
~ all gay is ok! articles
~ all articles on gender

These are the stories of people, gay people, who suffered harrassment, were forced or afraid to come out - to simply say "this is who I am". Eventually, they became depressed and committed suicide. Others, suffered at the hands of their tormenters.

• Darren's Boyfriend's Gay - Suicide Information Page
• About Joey
• Who Pays The Price of Hatred

 

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next: Darren's Boyfriend's Gay
~ all gay is ok! articles
~ all articles on gender