What to Do if Someone with Bipolar Refuses Treatment

Thank you for your beautiful blog. I just discovered it and the timing of this post is, for me, uncanny. I am an old friend and 3-year partner of a man who has been diagnosed at least three times with BP and he has been hospitalized three times over the past few decades. I entered into a relationship with him fully aware of his medical history and also aware of the fact that he had stopped taking medication a few years earlier and was instead deeply involved with meditation. What I did not entirely understand was that he believes that his diagnoses were incorrect and there is no behavior health problem at all. The proof for him is that he has not had a psychotic episode since stopping medication and has not required hospitalization. I am not a psychologist, but I can see plainly that his behaviors and habits of thinking are sometimes, well, “crazy,” as you say. My own course of therapy led me to confront my denial about his illness: I wanted to believe that he is well even as it’s plain to me that a behavioral health issue is involved. I decided that I cannot live in denial. I explained to my partner that I love him as he is, I fell in love with him knowing of his history, I accept him as he is (unable to work, but usually occupied in a healthy way), and I am not asking that he seek treatment—that is totally up to him; I did, however, insist that we give the elephant in the room a name. This conversation went surprisingly well, and while he wouldn’t accept BP, he did allow that there might be a behavioral health issue. This, for me, was an unexpected and amazing step forward. What followed were, for me, the best few weeks of our relationship. It felt like we finally had some genuine trust. Now, about a month later, he says he was just playing along with me to make me happy, that there’s nothing wrong with him, and the problem arises from my need to “create crises” to feel better about myself and “control everything” and that I am abusive and incapable of genuine intimacy and that this is just more evidence that I do not love him. (Not surprisingly, I was observing the little cues that indicate he’s headed for a not-so-healthy phase in the days leading up to this reversal.) So if there’s a question in all of this it’s this: how can a partner be supportive and accepting in a situation of total denial? I have drawn a line and made clear that I will not remain in the relationship if it’s based on denying the fact of his mental illness, and the breakup seems to be happening, though he has gone away for a few days to rest before figuring out where he’ll go.

I've heard it said that mania feels good. So why get treated? Likewise, it feels real. It feels like you really are master of the universe, versus someone unable to recognize you are ill. So my guess is people with mania don't want to get treated, cuz they don't want to lose the high and because they don't believe the high is an illness.
Depressive stage is more traditional reasons to refuse treatment. Belief you'll get over it on own; too depressed to get treatment; don't want a life on meds; and the reasons you mentioned.
The best advice I've heard is Xavier Amadors' "Listen, Empathize, Agree, and partner.

Thank you, MIPO. I read about LEAP a couple of years ago, when I first broached the topic of his behavioral health history and my request that he resume treatment, or at least seek a consultation (after our first year together). That met with anger and vehement denial that there had ever been an underlying MI and the problem was actually mine. While I never accepted this , I decided to take the slow approach, believing that if I could at least listen and empathize, perhaps we could develop a partnership and some tactics for dealing with episodes of compulsive shopping, self-medicating, breakdowns at social events, etc. This was the approach I took for the next two years. It's not working, and I believe this is because we cannot move forward with the LEAP approach if we don't agree that there is an underlying MI. I have always said that whether to seek treatment and what sort is entirely his decision, but that I can no longer be complicit in his total denial that there is an underlying MI. Problems that arise from his MI are always attributed to external circumstances or are dismissed as "everyone does this/feels this way". I have come to the conclusion that unless he can acknowledge that there is some sort of behavioral health issue in play, there is really no possibility of a healthy role for me in his life, because the role he wants me to play is as someone who will support his belief that he is just fine. That, to me, seems actually more harmful than healthy.

Twenty years ago I went into a severe depression and saw a social worker/counselor who suggested I see a psychiatrist, I was 35, and flat out refused.The idea that I needed a psychiatrist was frightening, even though I knew that feeling and acting like a yo-yo since my teens was not normal. My son's friend's mother was on lithium and the side effects scared the daylights out of me. So for years my family endured Dr.Jekyll and and Mrs.Hyde. I went into another severe depression, the meds didn't, and a nurse practioner suggested I see a psychiatrist. This time I listened, and the Pdoc prescribed Lamictal,Abilify,and Seroquel.I often lament all the years lost to bipolar and the denial that anything was wrong. I believe that the biggest step is to accept that something is amiss and seek help.

Thank you Natasha for your Blogs on Bipolar disorder.I am a Bipolar,inspite of my best effort i could not tolerate quitipine so i gave up at my own.

yes I have leared
do not take end up In the mental hospital so now I take my meds and go to counseling and stay halfway sane I think bean in the hosp for not taking meds or the meds stop working right about 7 or 8 times after awhile you lose track .

@Maria Gostrey
Thank you Maria for your post. I agree with everything you write and feel the same.

I'm married 2 1/2 years now to a bipolar. It's so hard to keep it together. He's refusing to take his meds. He took them for a month and stopped. I can't talk to him about anything. He spends money like it grows on trees. He accuses me of things I haven't done; and gets out of control with accusing. I sometimes think of leaving, but feel I need to be here for him. That as well as I love him. We have good days and bad. The bad is always my fault for some reason. I just don't know what to do. Eggshells is an understatement.

Kathryn,
Couples therapy with someone who knows and understands bipolar disorder (likely a psychologist is often the best bet here, but it doesn't have to be).
If you can't get him to go, at least go for yourself--for your own sanity. You'll at least have a sounding board, but more importantly you'll be able to gain some perspective and skill as to how you can handle those difficult situations that are so hurtful.
Good luck!

My son is bipolar and is now in jail for his actions being off the medicine. I am visiting him in jail and see that he is still manic. The court system is a long process and I have to be patient. My question is if he never gets treatment again and remains in this state can he become schizophrenic or worse and have to be institutionalizaed? I worry that he may never accept the medicine again.

Hi Susan,
I don't believe there is any evidence to suggest that a person can go from bipolar to schizophrenia due to a prolonged manic episode. Like, what will happen (in my non-medical opinion, I am not a doctor) is that he will cycle down on his own as bipolar disorder is a cyclical illness. However, when I say cycle down, that will likely be into a depression. If that happens, he may more readily accept medical intervention.
- Natasha

I understand the concept expressed in this blog but it sacrifices the complete perspective. In the example of a spouse accusing a partner and the constant blame it must be mentioned that this is abuse. It is not ok and if a person communicates this it must be responded to. The major challenge with bipolar is that they can not communicate in a rational way. If a bipolar person were thinking rationally they would not refuse treatment. The fear of doctors is a common one. It is rational thought that gets us to get treatment. Would a bipolar person refuse treatment for a broken limb or cardiac emergency? It is the same mechanism. The mental health industry is the only one that waits for a problem to present acute symptoms that often are a result of a loss of quality of life. A sane and rational conversation may not be possible. I would argue that a life partner is not a caregiver. The difference is an order of magnitude. I honestly feel that those with bipolar have it hard enough. The same probing questions that keeps a bipolar from getting treatment are exponentially more difficult coming from a loved one. Medication alone is useless. Anti depressants with mood stabalyzers are not effective together as much as they are alone. Medication can also stop being effective as soon as 8 weeks and they may take months to be helpful again. Treatment should be the entire spectrum. Start with therapy. Ask about support groups and if your loved one wont go for them they will go for you. They need proof. Not words and at the end of the day we must all work harder to remove the stigma and we need the medical community to work much harder to restore trust. These fear excuses can be resolved by everyone. A diagnosis of bipolar is hard enough and they should not be forced to face the stigmas and terrible medical treatment when they are not responsible and frankly they have enough work to do. I am disabled and I find more and more that I am my own advocate and I have to educate people on basic respect in that I am different, not less than. I imagine people who are bipolar feel the same. Treatment is everything and anything can be treatment. It is important for a loved one to maintain positive health just as it is important for a bipolar person to keep trying. Just my opinion. I've been married to a rapid cycling bipolar woman for 6 years. She can be difficult but of anyone else she knows I just want to have an ordinary life and I do not want to be some inspiration story, neither does she. I just know I would never stop trying to get my wife help. Whatever it took. I won't wait for an emergency crisis to get her help. I won't quit no matter what.

This condition requires a higher power of intervention. So, I have noticed that when my wife does pray for about 30mins or so that it helps her to get through the day. One day at a time. She is bipolar and it does feel like I live with two polar bears that are going to eat me at any time. God help us! I do love her and that is the only thing that keeps us together. Amen!

When I was a little kid, around 8 or 9. I was diagnosed Bipolar. I was put on meds and everything, but I stopped taking them when I was around 11 when I realized they where deadening my personality. I was no longer energetic and happy, and was always apathetic and tired. If that was my REAL personality, it disgusts me. So I stopped taking my medication. I've been fine not getting treatment for close to a decade now, I can socialize and function and while my manic episodes makes people think I'm a little eccentric and my depressive ones make people shy to be around me, I have a huge circle of friends and an active sex life. To all my fellow Bipolar sufferers, the only help you need is self discipline, practice meditation, take up hobbies to occupy your mania, and read and listen to music or other stimuli when you're depressive. There's no need for pills!

Hi, thank you for this post but unfortunately it has not helped. I am a 21 year old with a three year old son and a supportive husband. I have a mother that is diagnosed with bipolar mania disorder. But I have reasons to question that diagnosis because I feel that she is schizophrenic. She has no motivation to do anything. She sits around all day and does not take care of herself in a hygienic way and she does not eat properly because she says she is fasting for God for prosperity. Keep in mind that she has been fasting for 2+ years. She will sometimes break her fast and becomes very distraught and start screaming and cussing God and the devil. She talks to herself like she is talking to God and the devil and then replies to herself as if she is someone else. She will not do ANYTHING because God tells her not to. She will not clean herself regularly and has been wearing the same set of clothes for months. I believe that she does this because she has no energy to do anything for herself unless her family talks her into it. She was receiving SSI and I was her payee and I had to take on the burden of taking care of all her finances. I also had to deal with her getting angry and thinking that the bank was stealing her money when in reality she was spending it and forgetting about it. I used to get so stressed because I felt like I was spending all my time in taking care of her and me and my husband would fight because I had no time to take care of me and my family. I don't know what to do because she absolutely will not take her medication or go to her counseling sessions. She says God doesn't want her to and he has delivered her from her medication. You said that the main reason they don't take their medication is because of fear but I don't think that is her case. I have talked to her about taking her medication but then she gets mad and gets in a fight with God and the devil again. She has been admitted twice to a mental hospital and just recently our family has ran out of options in trying to help her. So we went to the courthouse and tried to get her admitted to a hospital again but the authorities took her to the hospital here in town and she knew how to pass the mental evaluation and she did and they discharged her. It's like she knows how to turn off her condition to make it look like there is nothing wrong with her. She was living with my grandma in an apartment and my grandma was living off of housing. They found out my mom was living with my grandma and cancelled my grandmas housing so now they are living with my uncle which is my moms brother. There have been several incidences where the cops have been called on her for her screaming and violence. She has been aggressive with her own family and also towards neighbors. So because of that the cops have been called on her. She has also been aggressive towards me before. I had to call the cops for her to leave my house because she was trying to be physically violent. My uncle can't handle the way she acts and this causes them to fight so it is not healthy for her to live there and I have no room at my house and I cannot have her around my kid especially when she does not take her medication. I am stuck at a crossroads with her and I don't know what to do anymore! I love her and want her back to her normal self but how can I help someone that doesn't want it? We were helping her look for a house for a while but her expectations in a house were so unrealistic that even the realtors could not help her. For a while she said that God was going to give her a mansion so she did not have to spend her money on a house. And by the way, I am no longer her payee for SSI because she got an inheritance from her father because he passed away. She was going to spend some of that money on a house but her out there delusions have gotten in the way of that. She also tells us she has an aneurism and we have had her checked out and the doctors said she does not have one. We have looked for houses but none of them were fit for her because she was expecting to have a super nice 4-5 bedroom house for only $80,000. That is unrealistic. She does not qualify for a home loan so she would have to pay it all off up front. When it comes down to paying it she tells me that she doesn't have to pay it all at once because that is not how buying a house works. I have explained to her time and time again that in order to only make payments towards the house is through a loan or contract and she does not qualify for either one. She does not want to help herself because God said for her not to take her medications and without them she is having angry outbursts almost on a daily basis. When we try to get her admitted she passes the mental evaluation because she knows how to answer the questions just right so she doesn't seem like there is something wrong with her. And when she goes into the hospitals for her mental health she gets out in no time because she plays it off like there is nothing going on with her. I don't know what to do! This is one bad situation with her and I have completely ran out of options. I am the only one that can take care of her and make sure her finances are taken care of but it is too much for me. And I feel like there is nothing more for me to do for her but I can't stand to see her suffer the way she is. I need help and guidance and resources. I feel like she needs a caregiver but its too much for me to handle. Please help me or if you can guide me in the right direction in how I can help her or who I can contact to get her the help she needs I would much appreciate it! Thank you so much for taking the time to read this. Please help me! I am desperate!
Sincerely,
Ashley

Hello Ashley and I'm so sorry to hear you are going through what I want to thank you for sharing. I question the symptoms your mother is having as well as you do. Innoway they don't sound like bipolar but in fact schizophrenia. She would need to have that diagnosed I know how hard this is for you and the family to go through and see this happening to her while she seems to spiral out of control. This not only affects hard but you and the rest of the family as well. My son was diagnosed with bipolar disorder a few years ago and was on medication it was very effective for him but he decided to wean himself off about a year ago. He has been having the cyclic behaviors and is now in a manic stage. What is happening is the more he cycles the worse the episodes are getting. Right now he is going through a manic episode which is the longest and the worst I have seen since he stopped taking his medication. His actions are becoming more distractive his driving is becoming erratic and his actions are becoming erratic as well . He is usually very close to me to my family but over the past 48 hours he is distancing himself and basically telling us especially me, his mother, to back off leave him alone and let him live his own life. I know the difficulty of this because if we actually back off we don't know what's in store for them. They are not only spiraling out of control themselves but bringing us with them. All I could say is to try to speak to someone and maybe have an intervention with her but I would get a counselor to attend as well someone who could mediate the meeting. Good luck to you and I pray that everything works out you will find some peace.

I feel I can greatly relate to everyone's experiences here with relatives/loved ones with extreme bipolar disorder. However, I feel that the situation I find myself in with relation to my brother in law is quite unique, and I feel that I have nowhere to turn to.
My brother in law to say the least has had a very harsh upbringing to my recent knowledge. He has been diagnosed with bipolar disorder and quite possibly schitzophrenia. He is 30 years old and for the past 8 years has been wondering across many Latin American countries as a hippie/homeless person with a lot of substance abuse.
I recently became married to his sister who is from Colombia. We got married and live in Chicago Illinois, and are new parents within a year timeframe. This has been challenging by itself, and he has been used to his siblings and mother to always get him out of trouble financially or legally wherever he finds himself.
Upon hearing that we got married and moved to Chicago, he took it upon himself to come to the US by illegally crossing the Arizona border and nearly dying in the desert before being picked up with the dillusion of having to rescue his sister.
My wife and I had no idea that he had decided to do this, and were able to take him in on a pending immigration case. Since then our lives have been turned upside down with his episodes. I currently am the only working spouse to maintain 3 of us and has been difficult enough. My wife does not work, does not know English, and is a first timer to the US.
The difficulties with his condition has included everything: Insulting my wife, not cleaning up after himself, becoming violent, depressive, not wanting to work, substance abuse, constantly asking for money, excessive smoker, and even attempted murder within my own home.
We had him hospitalized, and was told that he had to be on medication for life. Well, he took the medication for 2 months time only to abandon the treatment and continue with his Hippie lifestyle. My Wife continues to defend him and I feel I can't do anything.
I feel caught in the middle, because despite my wife not wanting to tolerate his behavior she continues to defend him because he's her brother. The frustration leads to threats of divorce if I don't continue to tolerate because he's "sick" but the fact is he does not want help, and refuses to get treatment. Fact is that this ongoing trauma is holding us hostage and not being able to progress as a family. I really don't know what to do here. Really really difficult, and creates a huge distraction even when I'm at work. We are already trying to recover from many extreme changes personally as a couple since we got married. My wife: New country, no English, just married, first time mother, post part depression, first ever winter and the harshest we have ever had, neglect from my side of family to accept her, and on top of that her brother lands on our lap.
sort of desperate here.

My heart goes out to everyone dealing with a mentally ill person when the mentally ill person refuses treatment and medication it makes it even tougher for everyone involved.
I know someone who has dealt with a mentally ill person with bipolar and other personality disorders for over ten years they deny their illness and cleaver enough to manipulate people, family, officials, Judges and professionals into believing they don't have any mental illness and these officials refuse to look at any medical records that clearly prove the person has mental illness personality disorders uncontrollable anger, violent behavior and suicidal tendencies since childhood.
The last ten years this mentally ill person has constantly abused terrorized damaged and threatened to kill her children grandchildren and her. The grandchildren are very young children.
This person's mental illness, abuse violence and threats to kill them is constantly ignored and when she reports it she is attacked slandered called a liar and crazy even though the medical records prove she is telling the truth the person is mentally ill and has a long history of uncontrollable anger issues violent behavior and suicidal tendencies and has even been hospitalized for his mental illness but every piece of evidence about their mental illness, abuse and violence is covered up.
It is hard to get help when officials ignore all the documentation by hospital staff, therapists and professionals who know the person's history and mental condition and has written testified or documented the person is mentally ill, their condition is incurable they are a danger to self and to others and poses a threat for future dangerousness and even with medication and treatment their prognoses is poor.
It has to be traumatizing and severely damaging for these children to be forced to live in this kind of fear or made to live with a mentally ill person who has abused them, abused their mother, siblings and others right in front of them and hearing this person say they are going to kill them their mother, sibling, grandmother and other family members constantly.
It has to be unbearable and heartbreaking to report the abuse violence and threats trying to protect the children involved and be constantly attacked by officials and be denied contact with the children they are trying to protect because the Court refuses to look at any of the evidence about the mentally ill person but calls them a liar and crazy and hands the helpless child over to the mentally ill violent person who is abusing and threatening to kill the child and his family.
It is unbelievable they will ignore the mentally ill person being violent in the courtroom and the Judge having them arrested handcuffed and removed because of their violent out of control behavior but puts a child in that kind of danger the child doesn't have a deputy available to handcuff the mentally ill person when they are hurting them.
It is frustrating to have all that medical documentation proving the person is mentally ill but you're called a liar and crazy when you report the person is mentally ill abusive and violent and they need help before they seriously hurt or kill one of them and you are ignored and left to deal with the violence without any protection.
It's tragic when officials refuse to view any videos taken year after year showing the child screaming begging not to go with the mentally ill person telling you they are hitting and hurting them and officials ignoring or refusing to view all the pictures taken showing the multiple bruises on the child, or seeing another child constantly being traumatized when the ill person constantly threatens to kill that child, his mother and grandmother in front of both of these children but every time you report all the violence and even after submitted to a polygraph to prove your truthfulness you are still called a liar and crazy.
It has to be pure anguish to be denied contact with the child your trying to protect because the court gave the child to the mentally ill person because you wouldn't stop reporting the abuse violence and threats.
It is wrong when the mentally ill person goes out and hires a therapist who had never even met you or your family members but wrote a report to the Court saying you shouldn't have contact with the child and the Court doesn't allow you to argue against that report but denies you contact with the child anyway without a trial and the case is continued and that therapist is still allowed to be involved.
It is wrong for the therapist to fail to tell the Judge about the child telling her the mentally ill person is hitting them and screams not to go with them, the incident was reported to the Social Services and they contacted the therapist because a therapist is a mandated reporter she was supposed to report it but didn't instead she destroyed the video she had taken of that session when the child said it mostly to protect herself but also to keep protecting the mentally ill person because he is paying her.
I can't even imagine what the child is going through being with this mentally ill person who is abusing him and constantly threatens to kill his mother, sibling, grandmother and other family members he loves right in front of him it also has to be traumatic for this child to be ripped from the family he loves and wants to be with and who has tried to protect him from all this abuse and violence and even it has to be traumatizing terrifying for this child to be denied contact with the family he loves was raised with until the mentally ill person manipulate some officials to lie and manipulate the Judges into giving the mental ill person custody and denying them contact.
If the Judges would've viewed the evidence instead of taking the word of lawyers this situation wouldn't have turned out this tragic and these children wouldn't have been permanently damage and one seriously injured and maybe the mentally ill person could have gotten the help they needed. The mentally ill person is a victim to.
They can't help being mentally ill it is an illness they have no control over their thinking it isn't rational they behavior is unstable and unpredictable but mentally ill people are clever they know how to act the victim in their mind they don't think they did anything wrong it is always someone else's fault not theirs and they don't believe they are mentally ill the doctors are wrong and when they are violent someone caused them to be it wasn't their fault in their mind.
Mentally ill people don't want to be mentally ill some don't want help don't want treatment and don't want to take medication and they don't want to believe they are mentally ill.
When a person is mentally ill and are violent even if the Court can't legally order them to receive treatment they still should protect the people the mentally ill person is abusing hurting and threatening.
Not all mentally ill persons are abusive and violent but when they are the Court ignoring the mental illness abuse violence and threats won't make it stop and ignoring it can lead to permanent damage, serious injury or deadly consequences for the victims forced to deal with the mentally ill person without any kind of protection.
Senator Deeds found out just how deadly the situation turn when a mentally ill person doesn't receive treatment.
When you can't get help or protection from CPS, police, or the court officials who can you turn to? When you have written asking for help from government officials Senators, Governor, President Obama local news stations and to talk show hosts who had stories about domestic violence child abuse and Courts ignoring it and giving children to the abusers but you get few responses that only commend you for fighting to protect the children but tell you they can't do anything to help you and tell you to keep going through the Courts, when the Court is the problem ignoring the mental illness abuse and violence and forcing you to hand a terrified child over to the mentally ill person the children say is hurting them.
When a child is seriously injured after you reported the abuse to the Court they ignored the prior abuse and injuries to the child and forced you to send the child back to their abuser again and the child is seriously injured but you can't hold these officials liable of accountable for the damages to the child they put the child is danger but they have immunity is that fair?
Don't let all these officials pat themselves on the back claiming they are doing something about domestic violence and child abuse when we have over five million children being abused and thousands dying every year in the United States and they say they can't do anything when a person writes to them asking for help because children they love are being hurt and damaged and the Courts are ignoring it.
If it were their child grandchild or a child they loved they would know who to turn to and they would get the case investigated to protect the child they love.
When a child is being hurt everyone should care. Laws need to be changed. Officials need to be held accountable when they ignore mental illness, child abuse, domestic violence and put a helpless child in that kind of dangerous situation. They wouldn't visit or live with a person who was abusing them and threatening to kill them, their mother,sibling grandmother and other family members why would they make a child?
One person can't force a change but if every honest american citizen stood together there would be changes. Our system isn't broken like I hear people says. It would work just as it was designed to but we have so many dishonest and corrupt people working in the system and until honest citizens are willing to speak out and stand together to have the bad officials removed the system will continue to fail our children.

my family is going thru situation of BP -my son
He currently is facing charges due to a situation when
he was in a manic state.
He is an adult. Does anyone know anything about
Conservatorship??? or the Tarasoff Law?/My son is not capable of making decisions to help him know. He refuses to take
medication or even confront, or be labeled as BP.
His physch eval shows the findings of mental illess
and refuses to release this report, which if the
Judge receive/reads it will lessen his charges.
Main concern is for him to get the treatment he needs
He says his God doesn't allow him to take medicine.
I said God can work thru doctors and medicine.
I cannot make reason or connect to him
Any suggestions?

My husband of 20 years was diagnosed with bipolar disorder back in the late 90's. He took his medication for two weeks and then decided to stop taking it. He has done this before. He also had ADHD and never sees anything through on any treatment. He also has serious rage issues and was once in anger management but when it was recommended that he continue, he refused. As a result of this I have had to endure 20 years of extreme mental, verbal, and emotional abuse, and at times physical abuse as well. His behavior toward me is deplorable and he also has had serious anger issues at work. He does not manage money well at all. Lost his job of 21 years because of his inability to filter what comes out of his mouth at work or in public. He has been asked to leave many stores in the past because of his outrageous anger towards others in the store. I have endured 20 years of this abuse and he always blames me for his bad behavior and his rage. As a result I have been in a constant state of severe stress that has resulted in serious heath issues brought on by the stress. He is 53 and I am a 64 year old disabled/retired teacher. Am I supposed to endure another 20 years of his abuse and bad behavior? I have been nothing but supportive of him through all of this, but the fact that he not only refuses to recognize that he was indeed diagnosed with bi polar but that he has also been putting me through hell every single day. He has been out of work for two years having jumped from job to job and losing each new job after only a couple of months. I have gone above and beyond being supportive, but I fear that if I do not get this man out of my life that I will go to my grave sooner than I have to due to the stress. At what point does the person with bi polar be held accountable for their actions? Why should I continue to suffer the abuse I endure? By staying married to him, I feel that in some ways I am enabling him to continue with his horrible behavior towards me. I would like to see the issue of abuse at the hands of someone with bi polar addressed. I am not saying that all people with bi polar abuse their spouses, but it certainly is an issue with many. No one should have to put up with the kind of abuse that I have suffered. There are no excuses for that kind of behavior.

I am always surprised when people say that mania "feels good" as one of commenter suggested. Hypomania may feel good, but true mania is often accompanied by uncontrollable racing thoughts, agitation, delusions, paranoia, and hostility. It doesn't feel good to lose your job, ruin relationships, spend your entire savings, engage in uncharacteristic sexual behavior, get arrested, or to end up in restraints. I think people often confuse hypomania and mania. You can live with hypomania, but severe mania can damage everything.

When you've made attempt after attempt to encourage someone to get help to no avail, and the situation becomes emotionally abusive or financially devastating or physically abusive, it is time to protect yourself and your children and leave.
Is that heartbreaking? It was for me. But, three years later my children are still recovering with on-going therapy from the emotional abuse they experienced - it's a good thing I took action.
If you don't take care of yourself, you can't help others to the extent you are hoping to. I wish for each of you courage and a support network to help you make a healthy choice for yourself.

Marie King, It would be great to be in touch with you. I have endured the same type of abuse for over 25 years. I didn't know what Bipolar was until 10 years after. I just thought the behavior was crazy. I feel trapped and still have a 16 year old at home.If you see this, Lets connect somehow.

Dear Marie & Carolyn, I am so saddened to read of your heartache as I have walked in your shoes, I became involved with a BP we were childhood sweethearts & back then it was known as manic depression but to myself at 16 I had forgotten about the diagnosis & just thought he was crazy, I endured emotional & physical abuse daily when one night in fear of my life I sat with my 3year old in a shopping centre on a Thursday night till the shops closed plotting an escape I then ambled on home with my sleeping child in my arms on along walk home to arrive to home that looked like it had been burgled not a thing was left in a draw or cupboard as he had turned the house inside out & yes I coped a beating but this time I had a plan. The following morning I brought a newspaper & bordered the train for work & burying my face in the paper hoping nobody could see my battered face I searched for share accommodation in an area I knew that had a furnished room & when I got off that train my life had started anew & now I am married to the most beautiful man. Now my son has BP has never been diagnosed & with each year that goes by he becomes more of a stranger to me, my son is now 33years old & looking back over the years he was 18 when I began to notice the depression which before then was more of a personality trait to me & the anxiety,paranoia soon followed by delusional thoughts, he lives the life of a hermit it saddens me greatly I cant talk to him about it as it's like talking to his father & yes I am scared of him & now I have a 13year old Grandson whom I Have watched over from the time he was a toddler it was very evident he too has BP & while this one stands out to all who come in contact with him that something is very wrong he has been to psychiatrists & councillors but nobody can put a label too it. Anyway I just wanted you to know that they cant help themselves if they choose not too but you can I did it with a small child & you can do it too. Best wishes to you both.

My mom was diagnosed with bipolar shortly after my parents were married. She had her first episode as a college student, but apparently they didn't have a label for it back then. It makes me sad that my dad didn't even know he was marrying someone with bipolar. My mom is diagnosed as bipolar with psychosis as well. For many years she might have an episode for just a few short weeks, and be find for years and years. But back in 2009 she had breast cancer and I'm not sure the validity of this statement, but I honestly believe the chemo did something to her brain. She has not been the same since then. When she gets sick it will last months, and is so much more severe than before cancer. Just a few months ago she (in her right mind) stopped taking her meds. It was noticeable pretty quick. She didn't interact in conversation, called me in the middle of the night to make sure I was okay. When my sister and I started worrying my dad discovered that she'd stopped taking her meds. It felt like betrayal. I can understand a little more when she is sick, but why?? Doesn't she want to be well? Why would she choose to stop and be sick? It hurt us all so much. My dads health is being affected by this. He doesn't know what to do. Just two weeks ago he found out she's stopped taking her meds again. He asked my sister and I to come home for Labor Day to try and convince her to start taking them. She claims that God has healed her from bipolar. And that she's not going to take my dads medicine. She will only take her medicine, which apparently is her thyroid medicine. She blames everything on my dad. she lashed out at us, took her wedding ring off and told my dad she doesn't love him. And that she doesn't want him in this area of her life. She does not claim bipolar. She won't go to the hospital. She won't take her meds. It hurts so much watching this, knowing if she was thinking clearly she wouldn't make these decisions. After we tried to talk to her they went to the doctor the next day and she signed some papers so that the doctors can't discuss my moms health with my dad. That was deliberate and took some thought. My dads blood pressure is really high. He's stuck by her for so many years and it really hurts watching him get attacked by her when he's stuck by her for so long. I'm not sure how much longer he's going to be able to do that though, emotionally or physically. Especially if she won't agree to take her meds. It's just terrible. I feel like my family is falling apart.

I'm am lost ? My mom also has BP. I can't, I don't have the heart to put her in a mental hospital. She stoped taking her meds. She says it's killing her, her kidneys are failing? She is really religious, extremely, when she stops her meds. She has been sent from God and must help with his plan. I am ( well, not me personally) the devil, and the evil forces, I choose to be clung to. [This is because I live with my boyfriend, out of wed-lock.] I don't know what to do any more. . . . My sisters have taken the easy road out , threw there hands up , fed up, and gave up. This also is killing my mom , why her kids don't call, visit, or care for her. It is very hard, to be the worst person , according to my my mom, being reminded, every conversation, of all my faults, and disappointments, and how , only if ; I move back home, leave my boyfriend, become a servant of God, dress the way she says, go only to the places she said, and follow her every command, will she be happy with me? Otherwise we are fighting , and she can't believe she made such a hope-less human.
I feel a little better, just being able to vent. . . .
Anyone know of any hospitals which care a little bit more than other ones? In California??
Thanks
grass

I recently stayed in a psychiatric hospital for over a month. Within the first few hours, I was assaulted. I didn't do what I was told, which was to leave the bathroom of the ER. What none of the 3 staff that were talking to me told me was that they would force me out if I didn't leave, which makes a lot more sense than grabbing me by surprise. I was slammed to the ground, I bled from my forehead. I was yelled at, restrained in an uncomfortable position, shot with some "tranquilizer," and within earshot, the main offender said to another nurse that saw what happened, that I was assaulting them. I simply struggled and was pushing away from a staff member who grabbed me!!! I stayed a few feet away from the ER, in a psych ward for over a month.
To make matters worse, the psychiatrist wrote an incomplete prescription for me to look at, at first, before the court order, a nurse lied about it, telling me it was an abbreviation, and the patient advocate that was supposed to be my advocate against the doctor's opinion in front of the court, praised the doctor, which is close to being the antithesis of his job description!!
Callous, thoughtless and reckless behavior from psychotherapists, psychiatrists, nurses, social workers, etc. for close to 2 decades before this most recent hospital stay and finally by a specific social worker who was trying to be stern in telling me I "needed to comply" when referring to the prescription by that doctor in that hospital after I told her I was assaulted there, have finally made me incapable of taking any mental health professional seriously, except as a direct threat to my health, safety and well being.
I simply can't seek or accept "treatment." Getting "treatment" by a psychiatrist used to be somewhat of a choice for me. Now, it isn't. I don't care about the consequences of this, regardless of how severe they might be, because I viscerally feel there is an intention by "mental health professionals" and their colleagues and supporters to hurt me.

I was told by mental health worker that I can't help my adult child unless she wants help. Family told me not to take her in and take care of her because I can't. I work full time and have health issues. My mind is made up that if she calls for me then I was told to take her to the hospital and afterwards she will have outpatient counseling. She told me if she needs me she will let me know. She checks in with me twice a month but the people she talks to know something is wrong with her. She has spent two weeks in the hospital and now won't take her meds. My heart is broken. Her husband has filed for a divorce and has changed the locks. She lives with different friends.

Dear sir,
My name is Mohit age 28 yrs working in pvt bank in India. I live in noida India. My elder brother sachin age 32 showed first visible symptoms of psychosis in Apr 2015. He became violent and starting sermonising like a godmen. Acting as if he can see and speak with God. It was compounded by making facial expressions using tongue and shouting in aggressive manner.
After much effort he was controlled by 5 indls and admitted to hospital. Where doctor diagnosed him with psychosis. Fwg drugs were administered to him
Diva od
Oleanz
Larpose
Folfit
Sizodin for 9 months. We stopped his medication after we saw a marked change in his behaviour towards normalcy. 3 months passed without any medication incident free.
Unfortunately on 22july16 he relapsed . He became more violent this time and hit all family members incl our mother and grand father. He was overpowered after 3 hours and admitted to hospital again on 22 July 16. Doctor is of the view that this relapse has occurred due to stopping medication. Presently he is being treated at neo hospital in noida India. Doctors have administered fwg drugs.:
Clopixol acuphase 50
Clopixol depot 200 mg
Will start previously prescribed medicines again this time for 1 year complete.
It is pertinent to mention that my brother sachin is of very intimate and shy nature. He mostly keeps to himself and rarely confides in anyone. He does not have any close friends or is not even socially active.
Our father expired after elongated illness on 29 jul 2003. He evidently took that tragic event to his heart asks did not express open bereavement. He starting Working very early immediately after completing secondary school and quit job abruptly in 2012 after our sister got married without giving any explanation or reasons for the same.
He does not concede to getting married or socialise.
He do not admit that he is sick and need medicine. All medicine administered are mixed with his food. If he becomes slightly conscious He will not eat or drink anything.
We are extremely worried about his medical condition. Pl Go through his case and give a frank opinion about his chances of full recovery and way ahead
My entire family shall be obliged
A dutiful son and loving brother
Mohit

It seems it doesn't matter what I say anymore because my daughter reads everything as negative. She has started to take alcohol from her family in secrecy and then becomes combatant when faced with the facts. I see this as a beginning of more serious dysfunction. She is also delusional and sees conspiracy's all around her. My brother is bipolar and he has run out of people to alienate and the same thing is happening to my daughter. The hardest part is the validation she wants when she has clearly done something wrong. Even if I stay silent and don't confront her she in the end decides everyone is against her. After all whats the big deal if she took a little bit of alcohol to self medicate? My brother has taught me that the smallest of behaviors will become more severe over time because they get bolder and bolder and take advantage of anyone who is trying to support them. I think that most of the time she knows she's done something wrong but instead of saying sorry she reverts it and is convinced that the person is and has always been against her. If I don't contact her then I don't care and she feels alone. It doesn't matter what I do I can't win. I sometimes wonder what she could be capable of and I have started to take precautions and not have anything available that she may feel she need to take. Regardless she usually comes back but there is usually a two hour rant that I need to sit through before she has dispelled her demons and then we start all over again. There is only my one other daughter in our small family the rest are far away and she does the best she can but she needs to protect her family also. I am weary....but stubborn.....I will do what I can but I can no longer give her financial support so her desire to see me is lessening because she is compelled to ask me and really doesn't want to. But what do you do when your hungry. She says her sister and I are her biggest triggers. We are the only ones who don't understand her needs but the truth is, because we know her so well she senses our lack of conviction that she is better and handling things. She will likely come back but I dread the day when she might not. I have decided to try and find a support group near by.

My husband and I recently got married in July of this year. I married him knowing he had a dual diagnosis of bipolar disorder with severe depression and addiction. When we first met things were very rocky. He wound up getting a DUI one night because of one of his episodes. I told him that if I was going to stay, I wasn't going to hang around with his friends anymore because they manipulated him so much. When we stopped seeing them he went to jail shortly after for the DUI in Jan 2015. The three months he served changed him in so many ways. We was finally on the correct medication, he realized what life meant to him because for the first time ever he was consistently sober, and he loved me more than ever.
We got engaged July of 2015 and ever since things have been pretty good. We started seeing a psychologist that specialized in addiction and marriage counseling and we're able to communicate so much better. He had another episode in Jan of this year but got himself together the very next day and we were able to pick the situation apart in therapy and move on. The past 6 months have been nothing but pure bliss.
We were planning for the wedding and starting a family a family soon after, hopefully. We married in July of this year and found out we were expecting just in mid august. We were both over the moon excited and couldn't believe that everything we had worked for was coming true. Two weeks later I noticed things were off with him. He was lying me about talking to his ex (they have a son together, my step son) and when I confronted him about it he made it seem like it my fault and kept telling me he didn't do anything wrong. Again, we talked about it in therapy and finally after a few days he admitted what he did and we moved on. The next week, he was acting very odd and we had an open conversation about getting him back to the doctor because he noticed he was very depressed and then he'd be fine a few minutes later. The next day he was off and I asked how he was feeling and totally lashed out on me, calling and me names and telling me to terminate the pregnancy. The following week I found out that he had been cheating on me with his ex, who I've seen every week for the past year because of my step son. He lied to me about everything when I asked him so I decided to confront her and told me everything that had happened. He told her multiple times that we had separated and that I was moving out of our apartment, he even told her that I was getting the baby aborted. He would still come to me and have sex the whole time as well.
It is very disturbing because after I found out, he moved in with her and his step son for a whole week while her parents were away. I got a call from him last night saying that he tried to drink himself to death the other day and that he got transferred to a psychiatric clinic from the hospital. Everytime he calls he is distraught and crying and asking me to promise that I won't leave and that he still wants to be married to me. I tried to get him to go to the hospital immediately last week when I found out but he wouldn't go. Also, the only thing night he had his ex pick him up to get a hotel room with her was the same day we saw out baby for the first time and he was elated.
I know that his actions are all classic bipolar/addiction driven but it's so hard to see past that when he's cheated. I would have to see her for the rest of my life still if we ever got back together and I don't know if I could trust them after this.
Any advice or know anyone that's been in a similar situation?

My daughter is married to a bipolar man. He is the life of the party, no one sees anything wrong with him. but at home he does things that are unacceptable. there are 3 children involved. My daughter thought she was crazy until she read the symptoms of bipolar. He doesn't see it in himself and won't get treatment. Should she divorce him? She can't take it anymore and has no job skills.

I have written some long posts here and on other websites. This one will be short. My recently ex girlfriend is bipolar. Despite my gentle reminding her to restart her meds almost every day she sluffed me off.
She went into a full blown mania. I have endured being shouted a over bizzarre topics ("Saying I love you" too many times and ruining everyone's night? What a reason for a rant). I have had a pig mask with the eyes x'ed out left on my doorstep. Threats of violence, cutting off my genitals and knocking out my teeth. Threatening to break into my house and break all of my things. Accusing me of cheating after she broke up with me, said it was over with no chance of working it out because I went camping with an ex girlfriend. Posters with my picture and phone number and a littany of derogatory acccusations about what a horrible person I am. Hours long text bombing when she should have been working. A minor disagreement over whether to go camping before summer ended, the night ended up with her wandering downtown, high on crystal meth, and having lost her ID and purse, and in jail.
And all this from a girl, who when stable, we only had 3 fights during 10 months and a relationship that was second to none. I got her a job, gave her a cheap place to live, took care of her. When her drinking was excessive I carried her to bed at times 4-6 nights a week to ensure she made it to work and didn't wake up on the kitchen floor passed out.
I will spare any more details. The conclusion I came to was that until she is ready to take her illness seriously, limit her alcohol intake, and especially avoid stimulant drugs (which she especially seems to be attracted to), she is not going to be ready for a relationship with everyone.
I was faced with a decision: Wait until she comes back to normal, hope she makes amends and tries to make it work (keyword: hope), and then hope she is compliant with her meds (keyword: hope) and avoids substances that trigger her condition. Otherwise wait for the next cycle again.
I chose to get off the roller coaster and got a different girlfriend. I really still do care about and love this girl; I went from shopping for engagement rings to single in 6 hours. But I deserve to be happy too. It's her illness, not mine, so it's her responsibility to take care of herself and her mind.
It still saddens me to lose that bright, funny girl who I could talk to forever and be constantly laughing that I had for the first 10 months. The final 3... absolute hell.
I think finalizing her breakup and moving on with someone else is the best therapy she can get. Take control of the illness or watch your life fall apart until you do.
She was the perfect partner. Until Mr. Hyde took over. My advice: If they aren't taking their treatment seriously and you arent in a good relationship. Walk. It's hard but you have to think of yourself.

My sister is suffering (and I with her) due to an adult BP son who is in the midddle of both a divorce and a marked deterioration of his mental abilities. As is typical, he is drinking, smoking, raging and violating a restraining order against appearing at the house of his soon-to-be exwife and four children. As he ages (he is now 55 yrs of age) it is expected that things will be worse, especially in as he is non-complaint with his meds. He will soon spend down his meager savings and will probably lose his apartment although the rent is being paid by his parents. In as we are powerless in managing his behavior we are facing the prospect of having our family member either homeless and on the streets or encarcerated. And we are facing feeling guilt for the remainder of our lives. We cannot control him but we are not sure what to feel, do or think. Anyone who has experience with this end of the BP saga ( adult BP family member with senior parents) please feel free to weigh in.

My second oldest son (age 36) is diagnosed as 'schizoid affective disorder' but all of his symptoms seem very similar to 'bipolar.' He was first prescribed with seroquel, and zanex, or abilify and zanex. He doesn't like to take his meds, then behaves erradically, and hostile. The whole family is upset, want nothing to do with him, avoid me, as well, and are having their own emotional, financial, addiction issues. It feels like my whole family is disintegrating right before my eyes. Depression has always been a problem for myself and apparently at least two of my five grown children. My daughter (age 31) prefers to stay in her bed most of the day, only works sporadically, drinks as much as possible, avoids all others and basically lives like a hermit. I am seeing my family self destruct and still want to 'decorate' for the holidays. Perhaps i am the worst of all, as is how i feel the majority of the time. These were five little babies at one time whom i loved and adored more than anything, but have now turned into five emotionally unavailable adults i am beginning to (at least) emotionally distance myself from. It feels completely necessary as i am at my wits end. Why would i continually attempt to make a home for a family who doesn't seem to care if i'm there except for watching me work? I feel depleted, drained, used, angry, exhausted and alone, except for the hostile inhabitants i thought were my loving children. Rages, bad temperment, alcohol, not working, not helping with household duties. not paying their own way, hostile, self absorbed, entitled, immature adults. Three out of five, the other two distant and unavailable. They have some good qualities but i do not feel strong enough to help this family heal. Could it be we are a family of narcissists? Their father is truly completely narcissistic and very vocal, even though we've been divorced for fifteen years after a long terrible marriage. This is almost funny if it wasn't so sad.

This blog has possibly saved my marriage. My husband is definitely undiagnosed BP that is afraid of the side effects of medication. He has been in a depressed state for a couple months and we recently came very close to divorce. We have been married for 31 years so it is not something I take lightly. When I read through the original post and the comments, it was like a weight lifted. Knowing that others have experienced the same things makes me realize we can make it through this. Thank you all very much.

To Mental Health Policy Org:
You're right, mania can feel good to some. To others, however, it can become a paranoid nightmare (particular if the person is bipolar with psychotic features). I've just witnessed the latter, and the person is lucky to be alive and not in jail.
Regarding your mantra: “Listen, Empathize, Agree, and partner," this may apply to some, but beware of using this when someone is delusional. No reason to agree with someone whose comments defy reality. The best advice I've heard is to ignore, but don't argue with delusions stated.

Hi, I need help with advice, please. My friend has Maniac Bi-Polar, she`s married and has a one year old son. the husband speaks very limitted English and most of the finances go into her account. She`s in hospital receiving treatment, she is in denial, she will not admit she has a problem.
What can he do? How can he be legally able to take the child for some months abroad to the parents or to have the housing benefit trasferred to his accout, does anybody have any knowledge of the process?
Thanks.

I have been married 2 a man for 18years almost.Diagnosed with bipolar mixed episodes with psychosis just a few months after we married.I believe his meds he has faithfully took since being dianosed r no longer workin.He has done pretty well on them.He has been hospitalized about 6 times over the years since being diagnosed.when he is rapid cycling in mania episode as i feel he is in now he verbally abuses me,punches holes in walls,throws things and recently threw a bag of items that left a knot on my forehead,he says he did not mean to.Stress sets his episodes off.He is been stresses since we haved lived with my mom because of finances.We recently have been almost soley her caretakers which added more stress 2 us,because it was expected we do it all by my siblings because we lived with her.He finally went into a rage threatens&runs after my son driving off from him.He raised my son and in his normal state of mind is a very good step dad and dad 2 our 16yr.old daughter we have together.He went after my son who told him,'Don't call my mom the b word!'The b word has been coming from my husbands mouth alot lately.The last couple of years the verbal abuse is out of control.He calls me lazy,sorry,i caused all our finacial promblems,i am the reason we have bankruptcies,i am the reasons he could not see his sons he has from 2 past short marriages.The 2 ex's wives made both our lives hell while these 2 boys were growing up,which added more stress thru the years of this bipolar journey of mixed episodes of ups and downs.He has not had a easy life growing up....he comes from an home where his father was physically and emotionally abusive 2 his mom.His parents divorced when he was in his early teens. He also had 2 marriages himself end where he was cheated on.He will leave our hope for awhile when he reaches a full blown episode of up/down cycling.He goes stays with family member.last time he came back in just a few days.He has left 7 days ago now and staying with his aunt.he want communicate with me at all.He has promised our daughter everday he will come get her and do something with her.he makes excuses 2 her why he can't.Meanwhile he is telling her how i controlled him,how terrible wife mom.I must have blocked him from calling because he could not get thru and other lies and he believes them.He is paranoid thinks i am badmouthing him,messing with his personal bank acct.He is saying bad things to his mom others who know he is bipolar but because he knows how to control his rage and irrational behavoir he tells them its stress from my family and me and he is fine,he is on his meds, he is not in a episode and convinces them,authorities and doctors.Most people other than my mom and his mom have not seen his episodes r irrational behavoir r thinking.we both r christians we met at the church i grew up in.He becomes extremely religious wanting to preach to people more than anyone should,then he cusses me.My husband in his normal state of mind is a good loving godly person,laid back,takes alot to trigger him to behave badly.He allowed people to run him over for most of his life.He is a good loving husband,step dad&dad.He is very protective of his chidren and me.He has a small landscaping /maintance business he does by himself.He loves anything to do with landscaping.He is someone idk right now in his mania mostly and depressive episode.He is lying and accusing,overdrafted his acct by writing bad checks,driving alot,staying up all night and day,crying,just a lot of mixed episoding.He does not believe there is anything is wrong with him leaving his wife and daughter who he is very close to and she is a daddys girl.He will call her want text r call me.He hates me and turns on me everytime he has had a episode.He will not go to crises until he comes down to extremely lows.once he comes down gets to hospital he will cry,apologize,love me,touch me.He will b very sorry for all he done and said to me.He had some symptoms i did not see r i would have got him to talk to dr b4 his full blown mania.Can his meds stop working? I know the good man this is why i pray 4 him and stay with him.Does anyone have a loved one r spouse like this that is a very good person,christian man,step dad,dad,honest,watches what he spends,very real not fake until he is stressed 2 the max and starts bipolaring turns into the opposite of his good man, leaves abruptly,when asked its because of me,hates me,slanders me, lies about me,blames me 4 it all even his bipolar until he comes down r ends up in crises?Then he returns to the man i love.Any experiences like mine and help welcomed.

First of all I would like to say I have been trying to tackle mental illness for almost 10 years. If you or your loved one can get through it ie. battling disputes/ suicide prevention/ the court of law/ emotional toll, then you've really earned it. In a lot of situations giving up is not the answer. The clinics, hospitals, courts, police, doctors and nurses are here for a reason. If you don't feel well now get help and act on it. Call a crisis line, go to the hospital and be proactive. If there is something happening don't let it persist. Always remind yourself and others that safeties first.

My daughter behave very agressive after her baby was born. She was having mental problems before ,but nothing like that! She is abusive and agressive toward me. It's got so bad that I can't visit my grandson anymore. Additional y to all it looks like her boyfriend also have mental issues. He is also abusive verbally toward me. My daughter doesn't want any help. She is telling that she is ok. But I am crazy. I cut all connections with them. I can't see my grandchild. I don't know what to do !!!!

My brother and I are struggling with a mother who is bipolar, 80 years old, and it expresses in the form of extreme abuse and hostility to us, her close family, while being effusive and 'saintly' to those outside (as if attempting to keep up appearances). Our father is infirm and depends on her for care. She will leave for days at a time, no food in the house. If we provide groceries she goes into a rage upon return, saying we are interfering. We can't take it anymore.

I have a mentally ill adult son that refuses treatment and I feel uncomfortable with him living with me. Am I a bad mother because I have gotten to the point to put him out of my home? He doesn't like to bath, he chain smokes, he's very disrespectful, he walks all night, in and out of the front door. I've been dealing with this behavior for 8 years now. I don't want to see anything happen to him but at the same time I'm very uncomfortable in my own home. It's like I'm walking on eggshells whenever I try to talk to him. Would I be a bad mother to put him out on the street?